FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (FIX)

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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby susanreads » Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:59 pm

Further to the above, I got my brain in gear, searched my hard drive for "fahclient", found the executable and pinned it to start, so I can start it manually every time I log in, which is an improvement on the previous situation. I'd prefer it to start automagically, though, and I'd rather not uninstall and reinstall it (even if I was confident I could do that) and risk losing the work I've done so far, little though that is. Maybe in a few days I'll get it together to go through all the instructions above and find the part I need, but it would be lovely if somebody could explain it for not-a-power-user. I'm sure there are lots of us about!
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby Stel2112 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:06 pm

If you don't want to do all of the steps in the 1st post and you don't want to use the GPU you can try reinstalling as a service. Uninstall the client, then reinstall, goto custom install and select 'Start as a system service' when you get to that point.

or

The step to create a shortcut and have it run automatically is in the first post (step 4 under os changes).

Either way, after you are done setting it up, see if you are actually getting work units under 'advanced control' or 'web control'. It can take hours to get one these days. If it doesn't work you will probably have to do what I did, which is everything in the 1st post.
Last edited by Stel2112 on Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby PantherX » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:33 pm

Welcome to the F@H Forum susanreads,

susanreads wrote:...I'd prefer it to start automagically, though, and I'd rather not uninstall and reinstall it (even if I was confident I could do that) and risk losing the work I've done so far, little though that is...

If loosing work done is a risk for you, you can set your slot to "Finish" and once done, i.e. results are uploaded to the Server, you can uninstall and reinstall without loosing any work.
ETA:
Now ↞ Very Soon ↔ Soon ↔ Soon-ish ↔ Not Soon ↠ End Of Time

Welcome To The F@H Support Forum Ӂ Troubleshooting Bad WUs Ӂ Troubleshooting Server Connectivity Issues
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby susanreads » Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:27 pm

I was wrong about the Pin to Start. I tried it this morning, and it opened a DOS window which quickly filled up with error messages, of which I recognised "Access denied". Perhaps I should have tried "Run as administrator" which I think was an option, but I didn't think of that till I'd started reinstalling it again (in the same place so I don't lose the work unit I'd started, though it hasn't reached 8% yet so I guess my laptop isn't fast enough to be useful anyway). This time I asked it to run as a service, and if that doesn't work I'll have to look into changing permissions on the directories, which I might have done in Windows 10 but not recently. *sigh* Why can't things just work?
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby rivers2 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:21 pm

I normally run as a 'standard' user, but FAH did not start when I restarted my computer. My solution was to change the account type of my 'standard' user account to 'administrator', restart computer, reinstall FAH, change 'standard' user account type back to 'standard', and restart computer. FAH now starts automatically and runs fine on a 'standard' user account. YMMV
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby susanreads » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:45 pm

Running as a system service works, thanks! That's a lot easier than all the other stuff you described and my graphics card is just Intel HD Graphics, so I'm only running on CPU anyway.

I've still got some issues, and noob questions I can't find in the FAQ:
The icon disappeared, I guess because it's running as a service, so I can't see the Advanced Control. Is there a way to get that back?
On the Web Control, when I shut down last night it was on 18.5% and this morning it was only 15.3%. That's a lot more than 15 minutes' work; it took over 2 hours to get back to that reading. I tried to put the laptop to sleep at lunchtime instead of shutting down, and it turns out it didn't go to sleep, presumably because the service is running.
If I click "Stop Folding" before shutting down for the night, will it save its work and resume from that point when I boot up again?
When I finish and upload this WU (or run out of time), will the thing that allocates WUs realise how slow my computer is and send me something smaller or less urgent, or am I never going to finish anything before it's sent out to someone else? I noticed the link to "casual donors", but it's only for people using Chrome.
I saw a thing about problems with antiviruses: should I tell Windows Security to ignore the F@H data, and if so, how?

Perhaps I should post the questions as a separate post, if I'm allowed to do that.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby PantherX » Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:33 am

The icon is for FAHControl which doesn't start-up since the client is running as a service. You can open up FAHControl manually by finding it in the start menu.

Please note that if you shutdown or sleep your laptop, it will not be able to fold at all. One of the main idea behind installing as a service is that it allows the client to run 24/7 in the background regardless of which user is doing what on the system.

When installed as a service, the normal "Stop" may not work as the service might restart itself which will case it to start folding. If you want to have manual control of when to start and stop folding, installing the service is not ideal.

Can you please post the link where it says to use Chrome for casual donors? The Chrome app was discontinued a while ago since Google decided to deprecate that feature.

If you would like to prevent the anti-virus from interfering with folding, you can exclude that folder. Here's a guide on how to add exclusions to Windows Security: https://winaero.com/blog/exclusions-win ... indows-10/
Here's the folder on my system to help you get started with adding an exception:
C:\Users\PantherX-H\AppData\Roaming\FAHClient
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby mmlvx » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:55 pm

rivers2 wrote:I normally run as a 'standard' user, but FAH did not start when I restarted my computer. My solution was to change the account type of my 'standard' user account to 'administrator', restart computer, reinstall FAH, change 'standard' user account type back to 'standard', and restart computer. FAH now starts automatically and runs fine on a 'standard' user account. YMMV

I tried the workaround posted by @Stel2112 -- no joy (but thanks for the easy-to-follow directions). I still had the problem of not being able to connect to the local client, or even confirm whether it was running. (I'm on a new-ish HP Pavilion with Intel Core i7 "10th Gen", using Windows 10 Home version 1903.)

What did work was, as suggested by @rivers2 --
  • uninstalling,
  • changing my Windows "standard user" login to an "administrator" login,
  • installing FAH using the "quick install" with default options,
  • and then changing my Windows login back to "standard user" permissions.

It's not completely awesome because it doesn't appear to save progress made: The client was 80% done with a work unit, but after rebooting, the client began working from 0% again. But, hey, at least I can tell that the client's running, and the web interface will connect to it; so that's good.

I saw someone mentioned a "pause" button, but I don't see that on the web interface. I see power settings for Light, Medium, or Full; and I see a big red button that says "Stop Folding". But there doesn't seem to be a proper pause function because when I click, it implies that progress made on the current work unit will be lost.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby Stel2112 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:35 pm

mmlvx wrote:
rivers2 wrote: I still had the problem of not being able to connect to the local client, or even confirm whether it was running.


I had this problem as well but just with the "Web Control" feature, which uses a web browser to monitor progress. I was always able to load the "Advanced Control" panel to see progress ("FAHControl.exe"). It turns out the "Web Control" issue was a separate problem with Chrome based browsers, the fix is #7 found here:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32463

I can reboot and keep most progress on the work units, but it does get set back at least a few percent (occasionally it has lost more or most progress...this might be a problem unrelated to install method/permissions, etc).
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby mmlvx » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:04 am

Stel2112 wrote:
mmlvx wrote:
rivers2 wrote: I still had the problem of not being able to connect to the local client, or even confirm whether it was running.

I had this problem as well but just with the "Web Control" feature, which uses a web browser to monitor progress. I was always able to load the "Advanced Control" panel to see progress ("FAHControl.exe"). It turns out the "Web Control" issue was a separate problem with Chrome based browsers, the fix is #7 found here:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32463

I can reboot and keep most progress on the work units, but it does get set back at least a few percent (occasionally it has lost more or most progress...this might be a problem unrelated to install method/permissions, etc).

Interesting. I tried FAHControl.exe (as a standard user), and it didn't seem to launch anything. I tried HideConsole.exe, to no observable effect. I tried FAHViewer.exe, and it seemed to be running until I realized the protein it was folding was named "Demo" and it also said "trying to connect to client" for hours. (Plus, the computer fan wasn't spinning fast the way it had been on the first installation before reboot.)

Also, for "Web Control" I was (and am) using Firefox 74.0.1 not Chrome. (I try to keep personal stuff on Firefox, and work stuff on Chrome.) Even so, I already had read viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32463 so I tried emptying the cache, just in case it magically worked; but it didn't. I pasted the Web Control link into Chrome and Internet Edge (as a standard user), and still no difference -- "Connecting" message for 30 seconds countdown, then timed out.

Some things are destined to remain mysteries, because other duties press if for no other reason. I'm just glad it's (mostly) working now, after escalating my account privileges to administrator for the install; and I'm glad it's (mostly) still working, after reverting my account privileges to standard user. I don't have much more to contribute to solving the issue, but I'm interested, so I'll keep an eye on this thread.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby susanreads » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:18 am

Thanks, PantherX, for the guide to excluding the folder from Windows Security. I've done that, so when it asks me to run a scan again, I don't expect any trouble.

The link to casual donors is from Importance of Deadlines in the Welcome post (viewtopic.php?f=106&t=26036#p261086) to viewtopic.php?f=95&t=25878.

I can find FAHControl in the Start menu for the user with administrator privileges, but not in my own Start menu. Perhaps when I'm logged in as the administrator I could give myself permission to run it, but I don't know what permissions I'd need.

I've also got problems with the figures in Web Control in Firefox (76.0b1). There was that time I turned it off overnight and it appeared to lose 2 hours' work (I've left it on since), then at lunchtime today it said 50% but 4 hours later it had finished that WU and started another one, though in 9 hours of doing nothing else overnight it had only gone from 33% to 46% or something like that, and my laptop hadn't suddenly got that much faster! This evening the percentage went down between looking at it, and looking at it again a few minutes later. Is it a guess like the % done when installing Windows updates?
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby PantherX » Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:03 am

susanreads wrote:...There was that time I turned it off overnight and it appeared to lose 2 hours' work (I've left it on since), then at lunchtime today it said 50% but 4 hours later it had finished that WU and started another one, though in 9 hours of doing nothing else overnight it had only gone from 33% to 46% or something like that, and my laptop hadn't suddenly got that much faster! This evening the percentage went down between looking at it, and looking at it again a few minutes later. Is it a guess like the % done when installing Windows updates?

There can be few factors in play here:
1) Once you finish a WU, a new one is downloaded. The time to complete WUs will vary depending on the project. Thus, it is likely that WU A took 15 minutes for 1% but WU B takes 5 minutes for 1%
2) When you started your laptop from a cool boot, the CPU might be boosting to a higher clock speed so you can fold faster. However, once it reaches a certain temperature, it starts to reduce its speed to prevent over-heating thus, folding slowly.
3) CPU folding is very sensitive to background tasks. Most processes will be given a high priority than folding so if you're using a lot of CPU cycles while using the laptop, you will be folding less. Thus, taking a long time between percentages but when you're not using the laptop, CPU folding is uninterrupted so you take less time between percentages.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby mmlvx » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:12 pm

mmlvx wrote:I saw someone mentioned a "pause" button, but I don't see that on the web interface. I see power settings for Light, Medium, or Full; and I see a big red button that says "Stop Folding". But there doesn't seem to be a proper pause function because when I click, it implies that progress made on the current work unit will be lost.

Well, I found the "pause" button: It's in the system tray. I'm about 95% sure that nothing was showing in the system tray when I had installed as a standard user.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby susanreads » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:16 pm

Data points on the "Stop Folding" button in the Web Control: I had to restart the computer to install updates. I clicked Stop Folding, which asks: "Would you like to stop folding now or finish the current work unit, get the points, then stop?" I chose Stop Now and the figure changed from 62.24% to 62%. After completing the update, I reloaded the Web Control and it was still stopped. The button now said Start Folding and I did that, and after a slight delay (while I wondered whether it would work, because I'm not logged in as administrator) it started, but the number changed to 61%. That's a bit annoying, but not a deal-breaker. I guess, but it's only a guess, that if I picked Stop Now and then shut down the laptop, it would restart the service and resume folding when I turned it back on?
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby PantherX » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:01 pm

susanreads wrote:Data points on the "Stop Folding" button in the Web Control: I had to restart the computer to install updates. I clicked Stop Folding, which asks: "Would you like to stop folding now or finish the current work unit, get the points, then stop?" I chose Stop Now and the figure changed from 62.24% to 62%. After completing the update, I reloaded the Web Control and it was still stopped. The button now said Start Folding and I did that, and after a slight delay (while I wondered whether it would work, because I'm not logged in as administrator) it started, but the number changed to 61%. That's a bit annoying, but not a deal-breaker. I guess, but it's only a guess, that if I picked Stop Now and then shut down the laptop, it would restart the service and resume folding when I turned it back on?

When you stop folding, if it's a CPU Slot, it will need to write a checkpoint. If it a GPU Slot, it will stop.

The CPU Slot writes a checkpoint every X minutes. The GPU Slot writes a checkpoint every X% if you stopped the CPU Slot, it does write a checkpoint because it can but not the GPU Slot. Thus, when you stop/start folding, there's a possibility that you may loose a little bit of work.

Regarding if folding resumes after a reboot, it depends on few factors. If it was installed as a service for only folding on the CPU, then yes, it will restart folding. If you made F@H automatically start on start-up, then it may automatically start folding unless you paused the slots before restarting which means that it will remember the slot state between restart. If you post your log file, we can see how it is configured for your system :)
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