FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (FIX)

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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby Stel2112 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:44 am

Can you please start off by informing us how many user accounts you have on the system, how many of the user accounts are admin? If there's a way to reliably reproduce it, then we can raise an issue for the developer to investigate. I have a single account on my system.


When I originally had this problem a few weeks ago, there were only two accounts on the system, one admin, which is rarely used, and one standard. Currently there are 3 accounts, one admin and two standard, with the second standard account created just for further testing and troubleshooting (i haven't used that account in days).

It is a relatively fresh Win 10 Pro install, about 2 months old, nothing particularly out of the ordinary. None of the accounts were created with "Microsoft accounts", just local accounts not tied to MS.

That is interesting about the working directory. I noticed that and could not find any evidence that a folder was created anywhere under C:\Users\<username>\AppData\ . Even if worked ok, there would still be issues for some people who run multiple users on their PC. The client, when ran under the other user accounts, would not have access to the folder, only their own 'C:\Users\<username>\AppData\<etc>' folder with their own data.
Last edited by Stel2112 on Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby ateguartarix » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:44 am

Stel2121, PantherX:
For my case, the default data folder was
Code: Select all
C:\Users\temp\AppData\Roaming\FAHClient
instead of
Code: Select all
C:\Users\realUserName\AppData\Roaming\FAHClient


I also used a local non-admin non microsoft account for the installation. Edit: I have only one other account, the admin one.

PantherX wrote:Welcome to the F@H Forum ateguartarix,

Regarding the inability to add a GPU slot, I would suggest that you:
...


Thanks for your welcoming message and this tip.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby PantherX » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:54 am

So, in this case, the use case is that you would like a single instance of folding to run on a computer with multiple users. Is that right?

In this case, I would use (theoretical and might be missing few steps) custom install and only change the directory from C:\Users\PantherX-H\AppData\Roaming\FAHClient to D:\FAHData\ where all users have permission to D:\FAHData
I would also create the shortcut on the public desktop so that all users get it. However, care should be taken to only have a single instance of FAHClient running.

However, the caveat is that each use would need to log out and log back in if there was a GPU folding. If you switch user, it would terminate the GPU folding since Microsoft only allows the active user to use the GPU.

For a system where there's only CPU folding and multiple users, it is better to use the Custom installation and select the service installation which means that regardless of what user is logged in or not, as long as the system is turned on, it can fold on the CPU.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby ateguartarix » Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:21 am

PantherX wrote:So, in this case, the use case is that you would like a single instance of folding to run on a computer with multiple users. Is that right?

Yes

PantherX wrote:In this case, I would use (theoretical and might be missing few steps) custom install and only change the directory from C:\Users\PantherX-H\AppData\Roaming\FAHClient to D:\FAHData\ where all users have permission to D:\FAHData
I would also create the shortcut on the public desktop so that all users get it. However, care should be taken to only have a single instance of FAHClient running.


In my point of view, the default config should do it by itself. As for this suggestion, this will not completely fix the installation process yet: the program will not start by itself at startup (I suspect it is also configured for the Admin account instead). You'd have to manually configure the startup as explained at the begining of this thread. ((the GPUs.txt fix does not work either for 7.6.9, but let's keep things simple and set that aside for this thread)).
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby bruce » Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:29 am

michelv wrote:It is really happening to me as well. I have a limited user account, so install stuff as a privileged user. It appear H@H still uses the unsecure practise to download stuff in the program directory.


That's your problem. First, log on as your limited user, not as the Admin user. Then run the installer from that perspective. During the installation it will ask you for the necessary authorization to write the programs in ProgramFiles. The working files will go in your private directory, as they should.

By installing from the privileged user, you've caused those working files to be installed where THAT USER is authorized to write them.

If you allowed FAH to start automatically, you're set. If you decided you wanted to start FAH manually, be sure to use the shortcut that has been provided.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby ateguartarix » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:45 pm

bruce wrote:That's your problem. First, log on as your limited user, not as the Admin user. Then run the installer from that perspective. During the installation it will ask you for the necessary authorization to write the programs in ProgramFiles. The working files will go in your private directory, as they should.

By installing from the privileged user, you've caused those working files to be installed where THAT USER is authorized to write them.


There is a misunderstanding. The problem appears when the installer is run from the regular non-admin account and also not with "run as administrator". The installer will ask itself for privileges.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby rwh202 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:37 pm

bruce wrote:The working files will go in your private directory, as they should.

Except that's not true and it still won't work.

The working files will go in the admins private user area.

Hence this thread and the workarounds listed at the beginning.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby michelv » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:04 am

bruce wrote:That's your problem. First, log on as your limited user, not as the Admin user. Then run the installer from that perspective. During the installation it will ask you for the necessary authorization to write the programs in ProgramFiles. The working files will go in your private directory, as they should.


Nope. It is my choice to try to keep Win as secure as possible.
So yes, I do get asked for the higher privs. That means the data goes to the user running those higher privs. So no, it will not work, as the limited user does not have access to those.
So I am following the schedule to do an install in a separate directory with a a separate data dir... and put the owner to the limited user.
But... with the new installer (7.6.9.x86) the GPU is not recognized anymore... sigh.

Mod Edit: Fixed Quote Tags - PantherX
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby bruce » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:34 am

FAH runs in the user space of the person who installed it. If you want to log on as the administrator and leave it logged on 24x7 so it will fold, that's your choice. that's not more secure. because the keyboard is still accessible when you're not in front of it.

If you want to run FAH from a user who does not have admin priviledgs, then install FAH from that userID and leave him logged on. Placing extra security on FAH's working files doesn't make it more secure.

You do need admin privileges to install the software in Program Files. The installer will ask for that permission upgrade when it gets to that point when the software is being installed as a standard user. Then FAH does not need any special permissions to run.

You MUST remain logged on if you fold with a GPU. (Microsoft's rule, not FAH's) If you only fold with a CPU you can install FAH to run exclusively in the background.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby PantherX » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:00 am

michelv wrote:
bruce wrote:T...with the new installer (7.6.9.x86) the GPU is not recognized anymore... sigh....

Please note that if you're using the latest client 7.6.9, there's a manual workaround to add your GPU assuming that you have the Vendor drivers installed (not the ones from the Windows Updates but the ones from AMD/Nvidia site) but note that if you changed the data directory for the client, just adjust the instructions below:

Manually download the GPUs.txt file from here: https://apps.foldingathome.org/GPUs.txt (right-click save as GPUs.txt)
Exit the client
Copy the GPUs.txt file from the Downloads folder to %AppData%\FAHClient
Reboot your system
Start up the client and ensure that you can see your GPU in the log file
Add a GPU slot from FAHControl -> Configure -> Slots tab -> Add -> GPU -> OK -> Save
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby rwh202 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:20 am

bruce wrote:FAH runs in the user space of the person who installed it. If you want to log on as the administrator and leave it logged on 24x7 so it will fold, that's your choice. that's not more secure. because the keyboard is still accessible when you're not in front of it.

If you want to run FAH from a user who does not have admin priviledgs, then install FAH from that userID and leave him logged on. Placing extra security on FAH's working files doesn't make it more secure.

You do need admin privileges to install the software in Program Files. The installer will ask for that permission upgrade when it gets to that point when the software is being installed as a standard user. Then FAH does not need any special permissions to run.

You MUST remain logged on if you fold with a GPU. (Microsoft's rule, not FAH's) If you only fold with a CPU you can install FAH to run exclusively in the background.

Bruce, I know you're busy on here, but please stop and listen for a minute.

What you are saying makes sense and is what SHOULD happen. You keep ignoring that in fact that it is NOT what happens with the installer and Windows 10.

"FAH runs in the user space of the person who installed it."
Yes, but you CAN'T INSTALL AS A NORMAL USER - you have to provide admin permissions and it installs and runs as ADMIN.

"If you want to run FAH from a user who does not have admin priviledgs, then install FAH from that userID and leave him logged on."
NOT POSSIBLE. The installer asks for admin permissions and installs as the ADMIN USER.

"You do need admin privileges to install the software in Program Files. The installer will ask for that permission upgrade when it gets to that point when the software is being installed as a standard user."
You give it permissions, then it runs and installs for that ADMIN USER.

The installer does not install for a normal user. Once it's asked for admin permissions, it always installs for the admin user, regardless of who is logged in.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby susanreads » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:04 am

I don't understand all of the above, but as well as Users/(my admin user) and Users/(me) there's a Users/Public. Would putting the files there do any good?
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby Stel2112 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:43 pm

rwh202 wrote:"FAH runs in the user space of the person who installed it."
Yes, but you CAN'T INSTALL AS A NORMAL USER - you have to provide admin permissions and it installs and runs as ADMIN.

"You do need admin privileges to install the software in Program Files. The installer will ask for that permission upgrade when it gets to that point when the software is being installed as a standard user."
You give it permissions, then it runs and installs for that ADMIN USER.

The installer does not install for a normal user. Once it's asked for admin permissions, it always installs for the admin user, regardless of who is logged in.


Yes...this is the general behavior for most Windows installers, for various programs of all sorts, for the last few Windows versions. The second the FAH installer exe is run, it asks for admin privileges. The only choice is to give it permission, otherwise the installer quits. When the admin permissions are given it is now running under the admin's user space (as verified by task manager), regardless of the account that initially launched the installer.
Last edited by Stel2112 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby ateguartarix » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:43 pm

Bruce: you really should try and reproduce this issue by yourself. This issue, I repeat, is reproducible.

There is no discussion to have until everyone in this conversation try the steps beforehand. :ewink:

Steps to reproduce:

Default config issue

  • Create a local account on Windows 10 without any administrative privileges
  • Install v 7.6.9 with the "Express install" option
  • Restart the computer
  • -> Data folder is on the wrong user account
  • -> No F@H at startup
  • -> No F@H in the menu
  • (edit) -> F@H will not start manually (see Stel2112's post below)

Startup issue with custom install
  • Create a local account on Windows 10 without any administrative privileges
  • Install v 7.6.9 with the "Custom install" option (choose a good place for the folders, say in %AppData%\Roaming)
  • Restart the computer
  • -> No F@H at startup
  • -> No F@H in the menu

Then, comme here and share your thoughts.
Last edited by ateguartarix on Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: FAH won't run correctly as a 'standard' user on Win10 (F

Postby Stel2112 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:11 pm

I would add that even if you run FAH manually under the standard account with folders in the default locations it will not work, due to permission issues (partly due to the data folder being under the admin account's files and partly due to the client program folder being under 'C:\Program Files (x86)\' ) . I posted those logs earlier:

Code: Select all
01:12:48:WU00:FS00:FahCore a7: Downloading 6.71MiB
01:12:49:WU00:FS00:FahCore a7: Download complete
01:12:50:WU00:FS00:Valid core signature
01:12:50:ERROR:WU00:FS00:Exception: Failed to open 'cores/cores.foldingathome.org/v7/win/64bit/avx/Core_a7.fah/FahCore_a7.exe': Failed to open 'cores/cores.foldingathome.org/v7/win/64bit/avx/Core_a7.fah/FahCore_a7.exe': Access is denied.
01:12:50:ERROR:WU00:FS00:: iostream stream error: Access is denied.


It works fine when installed as described in the first post.
Last edited by Stel2112 on Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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