Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

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Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

Postby valkraider » Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:24 pm

Please support MacOS X Catalina, and it's Gatekeeper security model, so that Mac users can use FaH.

Not all users can make exceptions to OS security policies on their machines. Whether due to personal preference, corporate restrictions, or general adherence to best practices - Mac users should not be forced to choose between helping cure disease, and circumventing security measures on their computer.

Gatekeeper has been around for nearly 8 years, it is not a new thing and the methods to sign code, and get developer certificates are well documented and very simple. These are things that are only becoming more common and more important as technology progresses - this need will not "go away".

Thank you,
Valk
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Re: Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

Postby calxalot » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:44 pm

It is on the todo list.
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Re: Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

Postby boweymann » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:46 am

Thanks for positive intentions concerning developing intgration to MacOS X Catalina - I can´t install Folding SW under this platform no matter what kinds of spells i tries.

So really looking forward to participate in the project - when proper integration to Catalina is established.

YS

Bo Weymann
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Re: Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

Postby Joe_H » Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:41 pm

All you need is an admin account, the same as you would need if the installer was signed by Apple. Only difference is that Gatekeeper initially keeps the installer from running at all and you don't get prompted for that accounts credentials. If you did not have that account access, then you still would not be able to install.

Try to install, it will be stopped by Gatekeeper. Then go to the Security & Privacy control panel, there should be an option to allow the installer just run to be used. Once you do that, the folding client software installer can be run and install the software, and you will be prompted for your admin access still. If you have not done this before, there are guides and videos on how to do this.

As for waiting, it will be a while. valkraider makes it out that getting apps signed by Apple is a simple thing, it is not. Especially since the changes Apple made about 18 months ago to require developers to do more than just sign with Apple issued credentials, the application now has to be submitted to Apple and they add a "ticket" if it passes basically the same evaluation as software to be on the App Store. For a start, the F@h software includes downloads and uploads which include downloads of binary executables - the folding cores. That usually is an immediate rejection checkoff in the evaluation process. There are other issues involved.

As for security, in 20 years no one has ever found a valid issue with the security of the F@h software. The researchers running the project have been very careful about maintaining security both for the participants sake and for the validity of the data involved.
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Re: Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

Postby jmenard » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:06 pm

I have been able to successfully download version 7.6.9 on my Mac with the latest version of Catalina 10.15.4. One thing that I found is that it make take a little time for the override message to appear in the Security and Privacy panel, but it eventually did show and allowed the override.

One thought, has anyone reached out to Apple to see if they could expedite this process given the urgency of the current COVID situation? Perhaps even lend some resource/funding to get GPU processing working on macOS. Probably a naive thought but maybe worth the call or email.
iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2019), 3.7 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5, 48 GB 2667 MHz DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB, Catalina
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Re: Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

Postby Joe_H » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:15 pm

I have no idea what contacts are being made behind the scenes with Apple. Many of the contacts between the F@h Consortium team and companies are on a NDA or or confidential basis that I have no access to as a volunteer here.

Maybe something will come out. But given prior experience seeing how long it took before Apple fixed the major bug in their implementation of OpenCL needed for GPU folding, urgent might mean months instead of years.
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Re: Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

Postby jmenard » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:53 pm

Thx, I have managed several projects with Apple over the years so I understand the challenge. It was just a thought :)
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Re: Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

Postby valkraider » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:24 pm

Are there any updates on this front? I am not going to debate with folks about getting code signed by apple, that's for a different time and place.

People who can not or will not override GateKeeper are stuck at 7.5.1.
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Re: Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

Postby Joe_H » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:52 pm

No - And as for getting code signed by Apple, as has been posted it is not as easy as you would make it out to be. Especially for an app that downloads binary data and executables like the F@h client does repeatedly.

As for 7.5.1, is the signature on that Catalina compatible? Last I knew it wasn't, and would only install on prior OS versions that had not been updated to the latest security patches that added the extra check for a ticket from apple being attached. The option remains for users or Mojave ann Catalina to override Gatekeeper, or wait for Apple to eventually approve the app, or not ever do so.
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Re: Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

Postby valkraider » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:39 pm

Again, I'm not here to debate Apple's process. I have a different experience with that process than you have apparently, but maybe it has to do with bedside manner?

As far as 7.5.1 - it could have been signed previously before something expired (I am not sure if that is the case - I have never tried to re-install it, so I am not sure what error/log message would be presented now) or what is more likely is that it was installed on our machines before upgrading to Catalina where the gatekeeper rules became more strict. My guess is the latter.

Without digressing into too much of a tailspin in an argument here, I was just wondering if anyone has contacted Apple from a PR type perspective and looked into getting Apple to be a part of the project as a partner, and got help that way? I mean - Folding isn't just a random game app or self-help tool is it? There is a higher purpose here, and Apple might be interested in joining in if only people were to ask.

Joe_H, you mentioned
"I have no idea what contacts are being made behind the scenes with Apple. Many of the contacts between the F@h Consortium team and companies are on a NDA or or confidential basis that I have no access to as a volunteer here."


Is it possible there is maybe someone else who could be pinged or asked what the status is, maybe someone who *is* closer to it? Calxalot responded that it is on the "todo list" and I see in the release notes that there has been activity in this space - so instead of bickering about it, is there someone else we can ask?
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Re: Please add support for MacOS X Catalina

Postby Joe_H » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:23 pm

Version 7.5.1 was released 2 years ago in May after a period of Public Beta testing, and signed then.

As for your experience, did any of the apps you got cleared include binary data downloads and uploads, or downloads of binary executables within the app?

The first is part of every WU being acquired, processed and returned and the second happens after the initial install to obtain the necessary folding cores, and periodically if those are updated. The developers have said those are sticking points with getting the F@H client signed off on by Apple under the additional requirements imposed last year.

As mentioned above, if anything was at a state where something could be announced on a "PR type perspective", the F@h Consortium and/or Apple would be announcing such when and if ready for public announcement. "Someone else" would be under the same constraints about answering any questions you raised if they are privy to any discussions with Apple or know who is. As such arrangements have been made with various other companies, they have been announced, or not, based on what those companies wanted announced.

You can "ping" the F@h people on the Twitter channel or the F@h Facebook page if you want, but keep in mind that there may be no answer. As mentioned, it is on the "to do list", but how long it will take to get to the "done" state is not known.
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