Folding only on certain days

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Folding only on certain days

Postby okmrbh » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:45 pm

Hello everyone.
I'm sure the answer is already been posted somewhere but as usual "I cant find it".

I'd like to run the Folding@home program overnight on certain days because I also run Boinc projects
as well.

For example I'd like to run the folding at home on Monday, Wednesday and Friday evenings from 10 pm to 5am
with Boinc its easy you just click the days and times you want it to run and its set. I cant find the equivalent on the Folding
preference or configure screens.

Also on the configure screen in the slot section I deleted my 0 CPU option but kept the 1 GPU
as I'd like to run GPU only for my Folding time, is this correct?

If this question has already been asked could you kindly point me in that direction.

Thanks
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby bruce » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:56 pm

FAH does not contain a scheduler -- the answers you'll find here recommend you write a script for your OS.

Another viable alternative is to run each for a week at a time and manually stop/start to switch them. Due to the time-critical nature of FAH, running alternate days isn't recommended.
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby JimboPalmer » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:08 am

To expand on that, F@H is very impacted by slow Work Units, none of the next generation WUs can start until all of the current generation are returned, so you would be holding the researchers project for ransom if you pause a WU for a couple of days.

If you can F@H on your CPUs and Boinc on GPUs, that is easy. The reverse is almost as easy, but F@H needs one 'free' CPU to do GPU WUs.
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby okmrbh » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:26 am

Ok, thanks I will set it up in a manner that doesn't slow the process down.
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby foldy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:29 am

@JimboPalmer: Are you sure the research project gets hold only because a work unit is 2 days delayed? The timeout of a work unit may be 1 week. And during the night a work unit can get fold - compared to none - looks worth for the science to me?
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby Joe_H » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:29 pm

He explained it fairly well, but the actual holdup will be the next generation WU of a particular clone of the WU. So for example, if WU PRCG (1234, 56, 78, 90) is delayed getting back, then Gen 91 will not be created for assignment until it is returned. That would be either when the Gen 90 WU is eventually returned or after it is reassigned when the preferred deadline passes and gets returned.
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby rwh202 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:05 pm

Yes, the science is impacted, and points will be affected too - the QRB rewards fast turnaround, or conversely punishes a delayed return.
I've got a P9415 running with a 1:30 tpf, yielding an estimated 36000 points. If I were to delay by 2 days (an average tpf of 30:00), then the reward is just 8049 points.
One solution would be to set a slot to finish before resuming boinc calculations and setting boinc to suspend GPU processing whilst core_21 (or 18) is running. That way, folding would continue to run until the current work unit is completed and boinc would kick in on the GPU afterwards.
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby foldy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:52 pm

But the other way round if that work unit is not pulled at all from assignment server then the project is also impacted. So for me it looks more productive to fold a work unit every other day and delay another work unit than fold nothing?
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby JimboPalmer » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:53 pm

foldy wrote:But the other way round if that work unit is not pulled at all from assignment server then the project is also impacted. So for me it looks more productive to fold a work unit every other day and delay another work unit than fold nothing?

You assume it never gets processed, where I assume some other folder gets it and returns it in a couple hours. Only when this happens will competing WUs from the next generation be created, so it is likely to be selected by some folder soon.

Not every Boinc project is this dependent on previous results, and I think some F@H are less dependent, but the fast majority of F@H projects work best with prompt results and so reward them with a Quick Return Bonus.
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby okmrbh » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:54 pm

Hello again.
What I plan on doing is give F@H priority over my Boinc projects as (F@H) seem to be much larger and time consuming than the
World community grid or Rosetta projects I run which are usually only 4 to 6 hours.

So far it look like my GPU takes about 12 hours to run its course on the piece it downloads so I'll run it on a few consecutive nights and will have the results back in 48 hours or less. Hopefully this keeps the ball rolling as the last thing I'd want to do is somehow cause an unknown problem.

I will then run some Boinc projects for a few evenings once all the F@H projects are finished.

Thanks for everyones help and suggestions.
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby bruce » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:37 pm

rwh202 wrote:Yes, the science is impacted, and points will be affected too - the QRB rewards fast turnaround, or conversely punishes a delayed return.


The impact on science may be subtle, but it's certainly there.

Suppose that project X has a deadline of, say 4 days, and the average hardware can complete the WU in one day. Now, for the moment, assume that everybody who has been assigned a WU from project X delays the return of their result by two days. i.e. - instead of WUs being returned in 1 day, they take 3 days. Since the next Gen of each trajectory cannot be issued until the WU is returned, every trajectory is delayed by two days and the eventual completion of the project is effectively delayed by two days. Repeat that process for say 100 Gens, and the completion of that project is delayed by more that 3 months.

NOTE: Every WU is unique. FAH's goal is to assign each WU to an individual system and wait for it, avoiding whenever possible assigning "busy work" consisting of issuing duplicate WUs except when they expire without being returned..

Obviously I've made some rotten assumptions, but on a statistical basis, those delays add up so FAH is warranted to reduce the points awarded and FAH can legitimately say any unnecessary delay is detrimental to science.

Looking at it another way, if you're seeking a new assignment and there are a lot of WUs that have already been assigned but they're not actually being processed, that does waste science. One of two things might happen: The server may report that it has no more WUs that can be assigned because they're all "on-the-fly" or the scientist may be forced to generate extra trajectories to fulfill the needs of current assignments. The latter is particularly bad because an optimum project has just enough trajectories to fulfill those needs. Excess WUs slow down the project (statistically speaking) because they end up sitting idle on the server and interfering with the assignment of the essential number of trajectories that the project needs.
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby okmrbh » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:59 pm

I must admit a lot of what's being said here is a bit over my head, however I think my schedule for running projects and the demands of F@H are probably not an ideal match. Therefore after I finish my current work I will just concentrate on my Boinc work as it seems a bit more forgiving for the way I use my PC.

Anyhow, in the future if my situation changes I will gladly come back and run a schedule more fitting with the F@H timeframe.

I wish everyone and the Project best of luck.
:)
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Re: Folding only on certain days

Postby JimboPalmer » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:15 pm

okmrbh, you may be right, you may not be an ideal F@H contributor. Should you want, in the future, to set it and forget it, come on back to F@H. It makes a fine continuous project. It just reacts badly to being interrupted.
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