When are the current PS3 projects ending?

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When are the current PS3 projects ending?

Postby JonazzDJ » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:10 pm

I've noticed today that I've been folding WU's for the same projects for over a year on my PS3 (projects 3451-3468 for the PS3, projects 3469 and 3470 for the GPU are online on the psummary for over a year as well).

My question is, are these WU's actually progressing well? Do you guys have any idea when they'll end (this must be a very rough estimate, I understand)? While I don't mind folding the same projects, it's not really motivational and us PS3 folders don't really get the impression we're advancing.
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Re: When are the current PS3 projects ending?

Postby 7im » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:38 pm

If each project did not progress well through all of the Runs, Clones, and Generations, then they would end the project, reconfigure the initial settings, and then release as a new project #.

Running the same projects for a long time does not indicate a lack of progress. Also note that project numbers are not progressively numbered, not chronological either, and numbers even get reused but are not supposed to be recycled. 3469 does not automatically come after 3468, nor does their close proximity mean they are related in any way. Project #s are assigned to researchers in ranges of numbers. Project numbers have meaning, but not so much in relation to other projects.

So while it does seem monotonous, it does take a lot of work units to simulate even the shortest amount of time for WU folding. Hours of folding only simulate nano-seconds of protein folding. I've seen CPU work units fold the exact same 1 project number for "months" without end. At least you've had a selection of 18 different project numbers, not just 1. ;)
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Re: When are the current PS3 projects ending?

Postby GreyWhiskers » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:05 pm

re: motivation.

I've suggested in other posts that I, at least, would be interested in having the FAH project leaders share with the community the scope of their projects. I give one example below, realizing that the design of WU incrementation will not be the same for all projects. But there is certainly very interesting "Intelligent Design" behind the flow of WUs that are served to the folding masses.

I've written about the current series of Nvidia GPU WUs from project 6801. I have about 780 or so of those WUs under my belt on my one GTX560Ti card. I had observed that the design of this particular project was to incrementally go through the Generations, or GENs of the PRCG, starting at 0, then in Gen 0, increment the Clones (0-1-2-3-4) for each of over 10,000 Runs. I'm now folding for the next hour or so Project: 6801 (Run 6502, Clone 4, Gen 19). It seems that the project redesigned their WU strategy to set up this pattern starting from Gen 0 Clone 0 back on March 31, 2011.

This is a large project. I just looked at the server stats for 171.64.65.64. They have 135,765 WUs available at the moment - covering at least P6800, but maybe other GPU projects as well. I think P6800 is the only project I've gotten from this particular server, though. In the latest server stats reporting increment, which is, I think, about 30 minutes, 635 work units were received.

Now this is interesting stuff, to me at least. What's the plan? How many picoseconds or nano seconds is each gen? How long does this project anticipate to go? - how many milliseconds of simulation? How many Gens?

As I had commented before, the project designers certainly know the scope of their projects, and I, for one, would be interested in them describing this in the project pages made available to the community.

This might add to the interest of folders like JonazzDJ - to understand what the plan is.

Thanks.

GW.
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Re: When are the current PS3 projects ending?

Postby bruce » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:04 pm

Have you read the project descriptions? The original family of proteins and the current projects are described here and the actual purpose is described in the description of the earlier series of proteins (the link embedded in the first page doesn't work).

The future of FAH depends partially on creating and testing more effective modelling techniques so the work you're doing is really important.

Here's one paper that came out of some of the early work: 60. Accelerating Molecular Dynamic Simulation on the Cell processor and PlayStation 3. Once such simulation is described in 72. Molecular Simulation of ab Initio Protein Folding for a Millisecond Folder NTL9(1−39). One Millisecond of a small protein may not sound like much, but I think that was the first time it was achieved and it took a tremendous number of Gens all spliced together to build the data required for that video, including some significant contributions from PS3's and GPUs. (Unless you have a very fast connection, I recommend finding the video on youtube, letting it load into the cache on your computer, and then replaying it from the beginning without the pauses.)

Predicting what might come of the current simulations or when that might happen is pretty much impossible, but a millisecond simulation that was calculated at a picosecond to femtosecond resolution is only a start to bigger and better simulations of events that take longer than a millisecond -- and doing it for small proteins can lead to similar accomplishments for larger proteins.
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Re: When are the current PS3 projects ending?

Postby 7im » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:19 pm

GreyWhiskers wrote:
...As I had commented before, the project designers certainly know the scope of their projects...


Since you commented about this more than once, I wanted to make it clear that the "scope" of their projects can be somewhat more ambiguous than you seem to beleive (just guessing from your word selection and repetition). Certainty is not certain. Sure, they know what they want to model, but that doesn't tell them if they need to run 1000 gens or 10,000 gens to get their answer. Or how many runs, etc. Sometimes the target is very focused, so they don't need to do a lot of runs and clones, but a lot of gens. Other times, like the PS3 project, they appear to be doing a full scatter, with many multiples of RCGs.

Granted, they should be able to tell us if a project is a short term project (weeks), or one that may run many months. But exactly how many weeks or months is never known. It depends on everything from competing projects from other researchers, to how soon it hit 100 degrees on the east coast this spring. (people back off their overclocks, shut down during peak hours, or even shut down completely in hot weather) All of which affects processing resources throughout the year. ;)
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Re: When are the current PS3 projects ending?

Postby JonazzDJ » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:41 am

7im wrote:
Granted, they should be able to tell us if a project is a short term project (weeks), or one that may run many months. But exactly how many weeks or months is never known. It depends on everything from competing projects from other researchers, to how soon it hit 100 degrees on the east coast this spring. (people back off their overclocks, shut down during peak hours, or even shut down completely in hot weather) All of which affects processing resources throughout the year. ;)


Exactly! We all understand that what the PG will tell us about the scope are estimates, but it would certainly be helpful (they can use trends to calculate this as well).
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