How many Shaders/CUDA Cores are required to be useful?

A forum for discussing FAH-related hardware choices and info on actual products (not speculation).

Moderator: Site Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the forum rules before posting.
Post Reply
[WHGT]Cyberman
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:22 pm
Hardware configuration: none anymore, FAH doesn't want it, it seems.

How many Shaders/CUDA Cores are required to be useful?

Post by [WHGT]Cyberman »

As far as I understand it, memory and frequency aren't as important as the number of shaders/CUDA cores. Because the actual calculations are mainly a LOT and not necessarily complicated. (From point of view of a processor at least.)

So my understanding would be that a good indicator to look at when shopping for a cheap GPU to fold would be to check how many shaders there actually are. The chips are often the same, but the environment differs radically. But if card A has 512 shaders, and card B has 512 shaders BUT also comes with 2GB DDR4 ram (or whatever), then card A should be about as useful as card B (for folding).
(Assuming that clock speed is about the same.)

So, what would currently be a good number of shaders for a GPU to have to be useful for some time?


Usual disclaimers because this is the internet and someone will misunderstand me:
I'm not entirely sure if this is the right forum - if not, sorry.
I did look before posting, I also searched but didn't find anything conclusive.
I feel as if this has been asked before, but maybe I merely thought about asking it and never did...
I'm not looking for a card that does folding + gaming or something. I have a card for that. But occassionally I look around for cheap cards and wonder if they'd be able to do useful work.
It seems I can't write a signature that both conveys my feelings and doesn't look like a miserable trolling attempt...
Neil-B
Posts: 2027
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:52 pm
Hardware configuration: 1: 2x Xeon E5-2697v3@2.60GHz, 512GB DDR4 LRDIMM, SSD Raid, Win10 Ent 20H2, Quadro K420 1GB, FAH 7.6.21
2: Xeon E3-1505Mv5@2.80GHz, 32GB DDR4, NVME, Win10 Pro 20H2, Quadro M1000M 2GB, FAH 7.6.21 (actually have two of these)
3: i7-960@3.20GHz, 12GB DDR3, SSD, Win10 Pro 20H2, GTX 750Ti 2GB, GTX 1080Ti 11GB, FAH 7.6.21
Location: UK

Re: How many Shaders/CUDA Cores are required to be useful?

Post by Neil-B »

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=34553&p=327776&hil ... rs#p327776 seemed to indicate that in order to meet deadlines something like 200/400 shaders minimum?

I have a K420 with 192 cores that is borderline - can sometimes complete within Expiration Deadline but other times fails ... tbh I rarely fold with it ... Both my M1000M 512 cores and GTX750Ti 640 cores tend to make Timeout most of the time ... so my current guess would be 250 to make expiration deadline and 500 to make timeout?
2x Xeon E5-2697v3, 512GB DDR4 LRDIMM, SSD Raid, W10-Ent, Quadro K420
Xeon E3-1505Mv5, 32GB DDR4, NVME, W10-Pro, Quadro M1000M
i7-960, 12GB DDR3, SSD, W10-Pro, GTX1080Ti
i9-10850K, 64GB DDR4, NVME, W11-Pro, RTX3070

(Green/Bold = Active)
Foliant
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed May 13, 2020 4:39 pm
Location: Bavaria

Re: How many Shaders/CUDA Cores are required to be useful?

Post by Foliant »

Neil-B wrote:so my current guess would be [...] 500 to make timeout?
Can confirm, my GTX 560 Ti, 448 Cores usually completes around Timeout.
24/7
1x i5 3470 @2Cores
1x GTX750 (GM107)
2x GTX750Ti (GM107)
MeeLee
Posts: 1375
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:16 pm

Re: How many Shaders/CUDA Cores are required to be useful?

Post by MeeLee »

Depends on the core frequency.
Generally speaking, a 384 core, running at or around 1Ghz will make the deadline, though barely (GT 730).
That same GPU running at 2GHz is enough to finish a WU in a day (GT 1030).
If Nvidia would have made a 192 core 2Ghz GPU, it'd be roughly as fast as a GT730.
bruce
Posts: 20910
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:13 pm
Location: So. Cal.

Re: How many Shaders/CUDA Cores are required to be useful?

Post by bruce »

The advertisements for GPUs report a value of GFLOPS which happens to be the product of the number of shaders and the frequency. plus a spare factor of 2. That means if the software is able to keep all of the shaders busy all of the time (which is actually impossible in useful code) the GFLOPS number is a reasonable way to rate GPU productivity.

The OpenMM code massages the protein into a series of blocks of work which happen to be mostly FP32 instructions plus some essential FP64 instructions and some essential serial code plus the data needs to be moved between main RAM and the GPU. How much of the calculation time can be measured by the GFLOPS value? The critical word is "mostly" (i.e.- take a guess)

In addition, you might be assigned a protein that's able to keep the shaders busy for a high percentage of the time or you might be assigned a protein that only keeps them busy a smaller percentage of the time. That's what keeps us from giving you an accurate number of shaders needed.

Personally, I'd recommend something bigger (wider) that a GT x30. Go for a GTX x50 or above. Personally, I also avoid the top-of-the-line until the price comes down.
v00d00
Posts: 396
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:53 am
Hardware configuration: FX8320e (6 cores enabled) @ stock,
- 16GB DDR3,
- Zotac GTX 1050Ti @ Stock.
- Gigabyte GTX 970 @ Stock
Debian 9.

Running GPU since it came out, CPU since client version 3.
Folding since Folding began (~2000) and ran Genome@Home for a while too.
Ran Seti@Home prior to that.
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: How many Shaders/CUDA Cores are required to be useful?

Post by v00d00 »

An onboard Carrizo R7 doesnt cut it. That much I found out recently.

A 1050 ti is worth about 220k/day and uses about 50-60w of juice.

Nowadays a 1650 Super or 1660 seems to be the minimum if you want a good return.
Image
Post Reply