Getting Salem State College On Board

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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby Silivrenion » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:40 am

No, I think you got the idea. There's two scenarios I'm observing:

1. The computer is turned on in the morning, reading basic configuration and downloading a work unit at 8am and working throughout the day until the machine is shut off. If it uploads results, then great. If it didn't, then :(

2. A computer is left on, running processing indefinitely.

Whenever a computer is shut off, it reverts the hard drive back to a certain state, losing any work unit progress the machine may have been building.

I'm going to look to see if exceptions can be placed on certain folders. That's the ideal solution to keep the machines productive.
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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby toTOW » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:45 am

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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby Silivrenion » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:52 am

Yup, each generation of a work unit requires the previous one to be completed for that project.

The machines are making progress, but I'm unsure of what percentage of units are being lost since I can't take statistical data on the uptime of the machines. Machines that can't be turned off, because they're at a kiosk or are hidden from user input seem to be processing a lot. Using those numbers, it looks like there might be a 40% retain rate with the power behavior of those machines.

Definitely improving that number would be more beneficial. I'm at least thankful that it's helping a little despite our technical limitations at the moment.
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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby bollix47 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:10 am

I'd like to add some information that is lacking in the link provided.

Each work unit has a preferred and final deadline. Let's use 30 days for the preferred deadline as an example.

If 60% of your work units are being trashed every day then each of those WUs will have to wait 30 days to be reassigned thus slowing down the projects significantly.

Unless you can set aside an area/partition for F@H that doesn't get overwritten every day then those machines should not be folding as they are very detrimental to the science that we're all trying to produce.

IMHO
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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby toTOW » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:13 am

Indeed ©
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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby Silivrenion » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:13 am

I think I need some more concrete facts on how the machines are running the software for right now to make an informed decision on this.
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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby Silivrenion » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:15 am

Actually, when I check dates of last work unit, they're all really close to today's date. So it appears that all is pretty well, and they are producing healthy results from what I can see there.
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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby MtM » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:45 am

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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby bollix47 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:09 am

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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby MtM » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:13 am

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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby bollix47 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:44 am

Just to add one more point about the computers that are able to complete a WU but are still turned off at the end of the day and the hard drives are 'scrubbed'.

After they complete their first WU they are sent another. So even though one has finished, the second one will be trashed.

You either have to run 24/7 or find a way to maintain the integrity and completion of the currently folding WU. To do anything different is hurting the science and as MtM has already pointed out could get your I.P. banned from assignments.

Please understand that we applaud your efforts to try to help the project but as it stands right now and, if we have correctly assessed your situation, you're not helping and, in fact, are prolonging the progress of science.

I wonder if Pande Group has some method of determining how many WUs were sent to your computers in the past year and how many were returned :?: This would be of value in assessing your contributions.
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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby MtM » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:59 pm

FWIW I did try to bring this under the attention of an admin with the question if he or a PG member would like to step into this discussion and do just that :( I don't want to give the wrong impression, I'm just a donor who is worried about this situation for two reasons: a> I would like to get/keep Salem State College on board of the project and b> I want that to happen in the most productive and expedient manner as possible.
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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby new08 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:53 pm

This may sound simplistic, but can't the 40% machines that produce, particularly if online consistently, be kept 'on project' and the others taken off? This would need a prior performance analysis by the PG.
It may be a 'second option' but would fit the scenario better ,from what's been said here.
95% of 40% is better than many more machines' extended WUs- that lapse eventually.
It's not clear if the donor site policy is to down machines every night, apart from the ones set aside and go on producing.
If this is indeed the case it would surely make the whole concept too complex to manage productively.
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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby MtM » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:46 pm

That's what we are asking for exactly, but I think something is going wrong with the communication if you feel like you have to suggest just that :(

There is one clear question to be asked which is, are the clients set up in a way so checkpoints are stored externally ( advice about this is already given in this thread ) thus preventing being wiped on shutdown?

It is not that complicated to answer, and till now the answer has been 'no they are not'. The 40% is a number given by the representative, it's not checked by PG/folding forum mod/admin, and I got a bad feeling about it being a case where 40% of the clients are able to complete atleast one wu before they are reset and all progress is lost. In this case, it is clearly not helping since it's as bollix47 allready said not only the 60% which is just thrown away but also the subsequent work units on those machines which do turn one wu in. The losses seem to outweigh the gains, but as I said I'm not the one to make that call.

Silivrenion, can you either confirm or deny how I present the current situation?
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Re: Getting Salem State College On Board

Postby John_Weatherman » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:22 am

If some machines can complete WUs before being "scrubbed" then using the oneunit flag would stop the downloading of a new WU until the machine is rebooted, would n't it?
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