Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

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Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

Postby oblander » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:19 pm

I installed the standard windows GPU client, ver. 6.23 and all I get are
"CPU -F@H core download error (# number keeps climbing) waiting before retry".
I have windows 7 home premium with an 8 core AMD chip and a video card with nvidia chips
(PNY GTX550T1). I have AVG as my anti-virus with standard windows firewall.
I've been running this program on three machines with XP for years and never had this problem.
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Re: Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

Postby oblander » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:14 am

Found the solution - have to run Folding@home in Compatibility Mode simulating Windows XP
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Re: Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

Postby Jesse_V » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:46 am

Welcome to the forum oblander. That's quite mysterious and I'm surprised you've had to run it in Compatibility Mode like that. I'm glad it worked out just fine for you. Purely for your information, the Pande Lab is working on a new client which unifies all the previous ones together. They plan on having it replace v6 clients within several months, and right now we're kind of beta testing it. It does have some major setup advantages over v6, so you might find it interesting and perhaps helpful. http://folding.stanford.edu/English/WinGuide
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Re: Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

Postby oblander » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:16 pm

Hi Jesse-
I looked at the ver 7. It looks like it is still a 32-bit program. If a 64-bit version were available, wouldn't it be faster? Why on the display on this version
I'm running, don't I get any stats as to the number of working units it has completed, etc.. I miss those.
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Re: Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

Postby Jesse_V » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:28 pm

I miss those completed WU tracking feature too, and it held me back from v7 for a time. However, its such a nice piece of software anyway that its worth it, despite having a few bugs. In fact, I believe there's a feature request to add that back in, but it hasn't been completed yet. Should be within a few months though. As for the 64-bit question, yes it would be faster. Except that the client uses very little processing power, so it wouldn't matter. The cores do all the work anyway, and the client downloads/runs the most appropriate one for your architecture. So in that sense a 32-bit client works fine, since it can run 64-bit cores.
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Re: Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

Postby 7im » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:27 pm

Jesse_V wrote:Should be within a few months though.


That is a complete fabrication. Pande Group does not give estimates, and neither should you.

Jesse_V wrote:As for the 64-bit question, yes it would be faster.

That is another complete fabrication. The bit width has absolutely nothing to do with speed, in fah, or in most any other software. There are many other features, also included with newer 64 bit chips, that can run very limited and specific things, somewhat to a lot faster. But 64 bit, and all of those other new features changed nothing that fah needs to run faster.

Jesse_V wrote:Except that the client uses very little processing power, so it wouldn't matter.


Correct, it doesn't matter. And yes, a 32 bit client can pull in 64-bit fahcores, if supported and if available. There are none available for Windows yet. Only Linux. And even then, the 64 bits does not make it go faster. It only allows Linux to use more than 4 GB of memory and only systems with massive numbers of cores need it, so this has a small side effect of faster processing. And the current performance advantage in Linux fahcores is more platform based than bit based, so again, the bits don't matter much.

At some future point, 64 bit may become an advantage. But there is no need to have both a 32 bit and 64 bit client when the 32 bit client runs well on both types, has no performance advantage, and doubles the costs to develop and support.

A quick forum search would have turned up several threads on this same question, with the same answer. ;)
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Re: Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

Postby Jesse_V » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:54 pm

7im wrote:
Jesse_V wrote:Should be within a few months though.


That is a complete fabrication. Pande Group does not give estimates, and neither should you.


Actually, the PG does give estimates, well at least goals. My information was based on Mr. Coffland's statement of "There is still much more work to do. Our next major goal is to get the v7 beta client ready to take over as the recommended download on the main Folding@home download page. We are hoping to achieve this by January, if not sooner. Before this will happen we plan to resolve all the tickets currently listed in the Open Beta Phase 2 milestone." on this topic: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=19648#p195686
Seeing as how that bug is listed, it will be taken care of before the release. I could have said January, and while I really hope they meet that goal, I gave them a few extra months to take care of all the bugs and whatnot. So yes, they made an estimate/goal, and I reiterated a less definitive form of it.

7im wrote:
Jesse_V wrote:As for the 64-bit question, yes it would be faster.

That is another complete fabrication. The bit width has absolutely nothing to do with speed, in fah, or in most any other software. There are many other features, also included with newer 64 bit chips, that can run very limited and specific things, somewhat to a lot faster. But 64 bit, and all of those other new features changed nothing that fah needs to run faster.


I will continue research into the 64-bit vs 32-bit architecture debate. Considering that I've never ever heard of F@h consuming >4GB of RAM, I figured there was a speed reason that they wrote 64-bit cores, especially since they try to optimize their code on as much hardware cleverness as they can. I figured 64-bit architectures could support specialized super-fast instructions or something. If there is a speed difference in the slightest, then the v7 client would be a TINY bit faster, but any speed increase there would be greatly dwarfed by the speed increase of the FAHCores. Clearly, I have things to learn. Thanks for the further information.
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Re: Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

Postby 7im » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:04 pm

While Joe is closely working for PG, he is not PG.

This statement was made months ago, so any goal set back then grows with inaccuracy each passing day.

And please do not confuse a recommended download with a full production/public release. Beta clients have been recommended downloads on the download page in the past, and this could happen again with V7. And if they had all the bugs fixed by January, they wouldn't need to release a beta. Conversely, since it's likely to still be beta, one assumes that many bugs will still NOT be fixed by January, or whatever lax time frame you'd like to use. So don't expect any one bug to be finished until it's actually finished.

And setting any other kind of expectation on this forum only gives false hope, and leads to nothing but donor disappointment. I hope you can see that while your enthusiasm and exuberance are great assets, too much can also be detrimental.
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Re: Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

Postby codysluder » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:54 pm

Jesse_V wrote:I will continue research into the 64-bit vs 32-bit architecture debate. Considering that I've never ever heard of F@h consuming >4GB of RAM, I figured there was a speed reason that they wrote 64-bit cores, especially since they try to optimize their code on as much hardware cleverness as they can. I figured 64-bit architectures could support specialized super-fast instructions or something. If there is a speed difference in the slightest, then the v7 client would be a TINY bit faster, but any speed increase there would be greatly dwarfed by the speed increase of the FAHCores. Clearly, I have things to learn. Thanks for the further information.


The recommendations for SMP include a minimum amount of RAM per thread. That's not a problem for a Quad or Hex machine, but as you approach bigadv territory, 64-bit becomes a requirement. As far as instructions go, Floating Point is Floating Point and SSE is SSE. There's single precision (mostly) or double precision (rarely), but the data and operations are identical when compiled as 32-bit or 64-bit. The important change is the ability to directly reference enough memory to run all of the threads. (Different hardware may require a different number of cycles to perform individual operations, but that's sort of like other hardware differences like clock rate or cache size, etc.)
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Re: Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

Postby oblander » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:25 pm

I do notice that my new machine does seem to accept larger WUs. When I put my cursor on the icon, it is now saying 3300/10000 frames. I've never seen anything that large before. Plus when the machine had 250 frame WUs, I could actually put the cursor over the icon when on the computer for awhile and I'd see the completed number count up far faster than I ever remember.
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Re: Got new win 7 computer and get nothing but errors

Postby bruce » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:18 pm

oblander wrote:I do notice that my new machine does seem to accept larger WUs.


The word "frame" is used two different ways. The FAHlog shows periodic messages saying Completed xxx000 out of yyy000 steps (zz%). The systray client uses the word "frame" in a similar way to "step" in the log, often calling 1000 steps a frame but that's not guaranteed. Common usage is to call the interval between zz% and (zz+1)% a frame and call the intermediate intervals "steps" based on what is found in the log.

"Large" can be measured in different ways. A large number of steps is not the same as a large number of atoms. The time to process a WU depends on both. (With a small number of atoms, the time per step is shorter.) With a lot of steps per frame, the processing time is also increased. Most people end up ignoring how many steps are involved and settle on how long it takes them to process one percent (one frame). Without actually looking at the log, you can divide the two numbers shown in the icon fly-over message to get percent.

Moreover, WUs which require a large amount of RAM are ones with a large number of atoms or ones which you run with a large number of SMP threads.

The servers know how much memory your system has, what OS is running, which client version is running, what GPU you have, plus several other factors. All of these factors can influence what assignments you will get.
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