Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Moderators: mhouston, Site Moderators, PandeGroup

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby muziqaz » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:25 am

There is a rumour that AMD is reworking their drivers from the ground up. Dropping all the legacy crap support. If true then we might get something out of it.
User avatar
muziqaz
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:22 pm
Location: London

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby theo343 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:49 pm

Again, when were any consumer products "ready" ?

This is not that kind of case. We're talking extremly buggy and impature OpenCL implementation yet from AMD.
Image
theo343
 
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:43 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby mdk777 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:24 pm

This is not that kind of case. We're talking extremly buggy and impature OpenCL implementation yet from AMD.


Like direct X from MS you mean?

Of course it is the same thing.

Like any set of drivers, it will evolve and mature. Will it ever be suitable for Folding? Time will tell.

Of course, Fusion might eliminate discrete graphics cards entirely and this will all be a moot discussion. :mrgreen:
Transparency and Accountability, the necessary foundation of any great endeavor!
mdk777
 
Posts: 813
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:12 am

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby theo343 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:59 am

Fusion might eliminate discrete graphics cards entirely

Why would it? Fusion will only be lowend to midend.
theo343
 
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:43 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby PantherX » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:37 am

mdk777 wrote:...Of course, Fusion might eliminate discrete graphics cards entirely and this will all be a moot discussion. :mrgreen:
I would suggest that you read this survey -> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/san ... 763-7.html
ETA:
Now ↞ Very Soon ↔ Soon ↔ Soon-ish ↔ Not Soon ↠ End Of Time

Welcome To The F@H Support Forum Ӂ Chrome Folding App (Beta) Ӂ Troubleshooting "Bad WUs" Ӂ Troubleshooting Server Connectivity Issues
User avatar
PantherX
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 6321
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:33 am

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby mdk777 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:56 pm

Why would it? Fusion will only be lowend to midend.


I would suggest that you read this survey -> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/san ... 763-7.html


Yes, that is the initial market (and huge); improved graphics on ever smaller devices.
However, I was just extrapolating out a few years. :wink:
mdk777
 
Posts: 813
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:12 am

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby theo343 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:43 pm

Im not so sure the APU arcitechture will completely make the need for discrete GPU obsolete. Even in a few years.
theo343
 
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:43 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby bruce » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:14 pm

mdk777 wrote:As I've said a dozen times, just tell donors what you intend to do, or not do. :roll:


They have ... repeatedly. Stanford intends to support OpenCL when it's ready.

They can do absolutely nothing if OpenCL doesn't support the required features or if the hardware support of a specific feature is inadequate. I'll quote these critical words from the review that was referenced: "AMD is still a very gaming-centric company versus NVIDIA’s philosophy of GPU computing everywhere." Although those words were in a discussion of FP64 (and FP64 is not in the current plans for FAH-GPU) there's no way to tell which other features that are critical to FAH's performance fall under the same hardware design philosophy. The fact that the 6xxx is reportedly very similar to the 5xxx glosses over the fact that there were some minor changes. Who knows. Maybe one or two of those minor changes MIGHT be useless to game performance but MIGHT be directed at OpenCL and GPGPU support.

All we really know is that OpenCL isn't ready for FAH. The OpenMM guys have been doing serous work on it for some time now and if I know how that process works, it's certain that they've been feeding their requirements directly back into the design plans of both ATI and NVidia. Stanford is not able to control what ATI and NVidia do with those requirements (or when) any more than Adobe or the game developers or ... can. In the meantime, they wait / test some pre-release versions of hardware or drivers / redefine the requirements / and wait again. (All that happens in closed communications channels to which none of us have any access.)
bruce
 
Posts: 22827
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:13 pm
Location: So. Cal.

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby toTOW » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:32 pm

Unfortunately, the new 6800 series won't save ATI on FAH ... it's basically an evolution of the 5700 architecture (and I would have called the new cards 6700 and not 6800 ... more details about this are available in FAH-Addict news) :(

The only hope is that the OpenCL will perform better, but we can't tell it for sure until we have a working core to test ...
Folding@Home beta tester since 2002. Folding Forum moderator since July 2008.

FAH-Addict : latest news, tests and reviews about Folding@Home project.

Image
User avatar
toTOW
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 8785
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:38 am
Location: Bordeaux, France

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby RAH » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:25 pm

Since I am not a programmer, why did they change the ATI anyway?
The biggest argument issue I see, is the at openCL, MM, what ever is open.
Well so is brook+. Since that PG already has experience with brook+, couldn't they
develope it to their needs.
Back when, Cal, brook+ wasn't able to achieve, does that mean it would never be able?
With open cl, they have to start from scratch, with brook+, they have already scratched.
Image
User avatar
RAH
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:29 am
Location: Florida

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby Evil Penguin » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:34 pm

CAL/Brook+ pretty much had a dead end (no longer supported by AMD).
OpenCL is a relatively new API that is multi-platform and should be supported for years to come.
I think Pande group wants to unify the two base platforms (nVidia/AMD) for consistency reasons.
User avatar
Evil Penguin
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:34 am
Location: Texas, United States

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby muziqaz » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:48 pm

and brook sucked for newer gen cards. no scaling whatsoever.
User avatar
muziqaz
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:22 pm
Location: London

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby Evil Penguin » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:56 pm

muziqaz wrote:and brook sucked for newer gen cards. no scaling whatsoever.

Which was obvious anything after the HD 3xxx series.
User avatar
Evil Penguin
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:34 am
Location: Texas, United States

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby deekey777 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:52 pm

Why do some people don't understand, that CAL is not dead? It can't be dead: CAL is an API, everything runs over CAL: OpenCL, Brook+ or whatever.
On the architecture side, AMD retains its 5-dimensional vector calculation units; only one component is able to handle complex functions (such as sine, cosine, division, logarithms, etc.). The other four are limited to simple functions such as addition, multiplication, and multiplication combined with addition (MAD).


Nope. It's five slot VLIW. And you forgot FMA.
Nvidia's SPs are limited to simple functions, too. http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?A ... 110932&p=7
This architectural flaw adversely affects the performance of complex calculations such as those used by Folding@home. Fortunately, this type of architecture is otherwise very effective for 3D rendering, some BOINC projects, and simple mathematical operations.

That's strange, because when I asked Mike Houston about the VLIW utilization, he answered it's 4-4,5.
BOINC projects?
Milkyway@Home uses DP calculations, so my HD4850 is as fast as a GTX480. Colatz@Home does integer calculations only, so it's the next Radeon's advantage, same thing for distributed.net.
User avatar
deekey777
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Progress on GPU3 for ATi?

Postby Evil Penguin » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:57 pm

The question is... Which architecture is generally better for Folding?
Better in speed or scientific value is another question.
User avatar
Evil Penguin
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:34 am
Location: Texas, United States

PreviousNext

Return to ATI specific issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron