Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

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Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby MrCyberdude » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:41 am

I may be barking up the wrong tree but here goes.

I have just installed FAH 6.29.3 on my 2010 iMac 27" i7 with an ATI Radeon HD 4850 and have been wondering why I have had no processor load.
The only thing I have noticed is that the machine ID that I have entered as 4 in the system preferences does not change when I look at the log.
it constantly appears as ID 1. (I run a few PC's in the house so I give a different ID to each.. I assume this is the right thing to do.)
There is also nothing in the work folder.

Is there a command I can try to force the ID to 4 or 16?

Also what are the command lines that I should be running on this Type of iMac.
Update:
Code: Select all
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/stats/imac-core-i7-2.8-27-inch-aluminum-late-2009-specs.html

Hardware Overview:
Code: Select all
Model Name:   iMac
  Model Identifier:   iMac11,1
  Processor Name:   Intel Core i7
  Processor Speed:   2.8 GHz
  Number Of Processors:   1
  Total Number Of Cores:   4
  L2 Cache (per core):   256 KB
  L3 Cache:   8 MB
  Memory:   8 GB
  Processor Interconnect Speed:   4.8 GT/s
  Boot ROM Version:   IM111.0034.B02
  SMC Version (system):   1.54f36
I am also about to update this iMac software but as it is a 1Gig download I will bw holding off a little while.
Last edited by MrCyberdude on Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby codysluder » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:45 pm

I think you're confusing Machine ID with the number of threads you want. Machine ID is a software setting that has nothing to do with your hardware but rather with how many different clients you run on that computer. For OSX, you only need to run one client.

The part that you posted describes your hardware. It says that you have a single CPU which is divided into four cores. That accurately describes the Intel Core i7 processor, and except for a question about hyperthreading, it cannot be changed.

F@h version 6.29.3 should use all four of your hardware cores. When F@h is processing, what does "top" say about it?
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby CPhoenix » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:38 pm

I'm having the same problem, and am running a (very) similar setup as the OP. I installed the SMP client, started it in System Prefs, and then...nothing. The .prefpane does reports: Folding@home running (auto-start), but my cores (4 physical, 8 logical) lay idle.

So, here's my hardware info:

Code: Select all
  Model Name:   iMac
  Model Identifier:   iMac12,2
  Processor Name:   Intel Core i7
  Processor Speed:   3.4 GHz
  Number of Processors:   1
  Total Number of Cores:   4
  L2 Cache (per Core):   256 KB
  L3 Cache:   8 MB
  Memory:   8 GB
  Boot ROM Version:   IM121.0047.B1D
  SMC Version (system):   1.72f2


And software:

Code: Select all
  System Version:   Mac OS X 10.7.2 (11C74)
  Kernel Version:   Darwin 11.2.0
  Secure Virtual Memory:   Enabled
  64-bit Kernel and Extensions:   Yes


The fah6 process is running, has 3 threads, Real Mem 720KB, Virtual Mem: 49.8MB.

I doubt this is the problem, but I'm also running LittleSnitch. Connections for fah6 are allowed to assign.stanford.edu:8080 TCP.

So, that's two of us with similar computers. This sounds awfully like a bug to me. (Barring user-error...somehow...in the installation.)
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby CPhoenix » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:46 pm

Sorry about the double-post. Waiting for someone to approve my original post.

I checked the log file, and all I see is a long list like this:

Code: Select all
[18:35:46] + Attempting to get work packet
[18:35:46] - Connecting to assignment server
[18:35:48] + No appropriate work server was available; will try again in a bit.
[18:35:48] + Couldn't get work instructions.
[18:35:48] - Attempt #10  to get work failed, and no other work to do.
Waiting before retry.


Rinse, repeat, ad nauseum. Soooo...looks like there's something wrong with WU assignment on FAH's end.
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby Macaholic » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:12 pm

Welcome to the both of you. I do enjoy my recent acquisition of an iMac 27" Core i7 2600K 3.4GHz CTO. Lots of screen real estate and quite snappy with Lion installed. You might want to read this announcement and update to the most recent client in order to alleviate the problem. Be sure to help out by posting in the open beta area of the forum if you run into any bugs or problems. :)
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby Joe_H » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:08 am

It has been a while since I ran 6.29 folding, and I ran it from a command line in Terminal. As I recall, you might have to add some parameters to the "Additional Parameters" line under Advanced Settings of the Control Panel in System Prefs. Try adding -smp and possibly -advmethods to there and see if you start folding units after stopping and then starting Folding.

There is a small group of projects that will fold under OS X and the 6.29 client. They are numbered from 6026 to 6080. Since there is a few thousand available on that server, you should be able to get one. Since I have the same 2009 iMac 2.8 i7, I can give you an idea on how many points you can get when using a passkey. 6026 and 6078-6080 take just over 8 hours with 8 threads and result in about 3200 points. 6040 and 6041 are larger and take about 24-25 hours for about 8200 points. The rest take around 8-8.5 hours for 2800-2900 points. That is with not too much load from other processes. If you do run some other CPU intensive apps, then -smp 6 might give better results.

The v.7 beta has been mentioned. It does open up availability of a number of A4 core projects. Some give better PPD than the A3 core WU's mentioned, some not quite as good. I am running v.7 on my iMac and my son's Mac Pro, until the server for 6026-6080 was stocked up, they were running a mix of WU's for both cores, now just getting the A3 WU's.
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iMac 2.8 i7 12 GB smp8, Mac Pro 2.8 quad 12 GB smp6
MacBook Pro 2.9 i7 8 GB smp3
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby MrCyberdude » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:48 am

Thanks. I had already figured it out and was returning to let others know.

I run the following commands -advmethods -fahthrottle 75 -verbosity 9 and can confirm that I needed the -advmethods before anything started to happen.

I must say that this info SHOULD be on the MAIN folding page and also NEXT to the DOWNLOAD LINK for mac as I have spent hours to get this working. I am sure many have just given up and installed SETI software.

I have the -fahthrottle 75 there in an attempt to only use 75% of the CPU but this is not working. Any ideas on how to easily throttle the Folding?
In order to keep the iMac cool I have had to install "Fan Control 32 Bit" http://www.derman.com/iMac-Fan-Control and this has been working out well since I dropped the threshold to 80DegC

In Windows 7 64 Bit on the iMac I have used this http://sourceforge.net/projects/macfan/ (you must run CMD in Administrator mode for it to work) but I am looking for a GUI for it or something similar.

Any ideas for the iMac i7 Win7 64Bit Fan Control with GUI?
Any ideas on how to easily throttle the Folding to 75% ?

Mod Edit: Removed Code Tags - PantherX
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby MrCyberdude » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:06 am

ignore the CODE but i do not have 10 post yet.(Is this really necessary, No!)
Macaholic wrote:Welcome to the both of you. I do enjoy my recent acquisition of an iMac 27" Core i7 2600K 3.4GHz CTO. Lots of screen real estate and quite snappy with Lion installed. You might want to read viewtopic.php?f=24&t=19988 this announcement and update to the viewtopic.php?f=67&t=19795 most recent client in order to alleviate the problem. Be sure to help out by posting in the viewforum.php?f=67 open beta area of the forum if you run into any bugs or problems. :)

Hi I checked the links you sent and the first has no mac links for clients and the old one gui client that installs in apples system preferences does not update the Machine ID, my temporary workaround is to edit the client.cfg file and edit the 2 lines, hoping thats what i should be doing.
machine_id=4
machineid=4

Mod Edit: Removed Code Tags - PantherX
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby calxalot » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:12 am

The folding pref pane only attempts to write to client.cfg before starting and after stopping. Changes made while leaving the client running will be lost. The reason for this is that the client only reads its config at start, and overwrites whenever it wants to update the wu done count.

So, to change the config in the pref pane, it is best to stop folding, make changes, then restart folding.

Note also that you need to be logged in as the same user that installed folding. Otherwise, the pref pane won't have permission to write to client.cfg.
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby Joe_H » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:55 am

MrCyberdude wrote:Thanks. I had already figured it out and was returning to let others know.

I run the following commands -advmethods -fahthrottle 75 -verbosity 9 and can confirm that I needed the -advmethods before anything started to happen.



As I recall, -fahthrottle is not an available parameter with the version 6 SMP client for OS X. So to throttle the folding you might want to try -smp 6. There are other utilities for OS X, but I never used any of them and can't comment on how well they work. As for controlling the fan speed, I use SMCFanControl, or something like that name. I will update that part when I get home and can check my iMac for the exact name. (Update) I recalled the name correctly, links to it are available under the "Tools" link at the top of the forum page.

As for the 80 C threshold, my understanding is that the i7 in the iMac is able to run at a higher temp without problems. (Update) My iMac runs folding at full with all 8 threads and the CPU temperature is in the 60-65 C range in a 65 F room. No extra speed cranked in to the fans. CPU fan is running at 1400-1500 RPM. If your iMac is running hot, check that the air intakes at the bottom and the exhaust slot on the top are not blocked.

As for the v.7 public beta, the latest release is announced in this topic in the V7 Beta Forum, viewtopic.php?f=67&t=19795. There are links to configuration and downloading of the clients there and on the V7 main page, https://fah-web.stanford.edu/projects/FAHClient/. The v.7 client has a control to set the percentage of CPU used, I have not tried it out on my iMac.
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby CPhoenix » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:08 am

Macaholic wrote:<snipped, because your forum won't let me post links>


I see. That announcement links only to the high-performance clients that are specific to Windows and Linux. (And yes, I know I can probably, with some effort, run the Linux version on OS X. However a paltry minority of Mac users know what a command line is, just like how a paltry minority of Windows users know what the—horribly convoluted—DOS command line is.)

The problem then is still on FAH's end, but not in the way I originally thought. Someone needs to update the main download page with a warning that all of the Mac versions there are outdated and that you have to use these open betas instead. Worse still, an OS X guide to installing the beta is non-existent. Sorry to say it, but FAH has a serious presentation problem here. The project should really look into getting some advice from a marketing firm on how best to present the information available, and how to make things easiest for the general public to access.

Really, I would help-out beta testing, but by perusing the links you gave, I don't even have the faintest idea how to get the SMP2 client running on OS X, and I do know how to use Terminal. :-?

Seriously, if FAH could only present how to join the project better, they'd see a jump in participation for sure. There are a lot of hurdles to jump for anyone without technical experience. If only you could get more participants (by again, making it easier to participate), then you could probably beat the K. (I dare say, it may even be such that the page describing what proteins are and what they do is largely redundant. If a person has the intelligence, technical knowledge, and dedication to advancing scientific knowledge that they are donating to FAH, they probably already know basic biology.)

And for heaven's sake, when the client is stable, put it on the App Store (horrible, convoluted, and disgusting that monstrosity may be). (I still wonder why I don't see some sort of plug for FAH on Valve's website. One should think that Portal 2 would've been a perfect thing to piggy-back on a little. It would've been mutually beneficial. FAH gets gamers—who already usually have the fastest hardware—to donate, and Valve would've had a really neat "Here's how you can help REAL science" marketing ploy.)

Heck, maybe you could get some volunteer students to stand outside grocery stores and hand-out disks with the latest FAH clients (Win/Mac/Linux) this Christmas. Would do a damn sight more for humanity than those blasted evangelicals and their bells. :roll:

Sigh. It pains me to see one of the most important projects for the advancement of humanity fall so short on something so basic. :( (Also sad, since I've got an i7 and Radeon 6970M chipset just waiting to be used. Well, when I'm not using them to entertain myself with Skyrim. You guys really need to hit-up the gamers for cycles. I think it's safe to say there are devs out there who would give a bit of space on their websites for free. FAH is, for all intents and purposes really, a non-profit charity, for science.)
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby Joe_H » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:42 pm

The first announcement only links to the standard clients, as he is not mentioning the public beta test of Version 7. The second link does ultimately have a link to the most recent download for OS X of the V.7 client. Unfortunately the development of the OS X V.6 client stopped with 6.29, the Pande Group appears to have a limited number of developers able to program for OS X.

That limited number of developers also is effecting the quality of the documentation on the web site and in the folding app. Much of it is outdated and badly in need of updating to match the currently available clients. Some of the folding groups with OS X folders are helping out or making suggestions in the related forums, I intend to do more myself in the following year. Fortunately, by going to a client that has a similar interface on all OS's, the V.7 client will simplify the documentation on configuration. They still will need to improve the OS X specific installer and/or the installation directions. Some of this known, and there are open tickets on the beta site, but I would have to check through them again. Perhaps after you have some more familiarity with the forums and the client you could post some of your own suggestions?

P.S. The limit on new posters including links is to keep out the spam bots and them posting links to their sites. They can register, post text, but they give up after a bit when they can not post the link. I thought the limitation went away after a few days, but they may have changed the threshold.
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby MrCyberdude » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:49 am

How about someone with some authority making the simplest step and that is to update the old client config to default with -advmethods or at least the web page with the file location and information.

I just installed SETI / BOINC Manager and selected gridrepublic.org and it just worked and the options are extensive. This is a great example of how it should be done.

I will try your settings and method later.
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby Jesse_V » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:00 am

I've been thinking about pushing for a website revamp after the v7 client comes out. There are too many things that are irrelevant, confusing, or date to 2005. It would take a lot of time and effort, but I wonder if someone (maybe me) could make their own temporary copy of parts of the website with the proposed changes, and if the PG likes it all they have to do is copy it back in. I agree, folding.stanford.edu should have some major changes made, and we really need to be ahead of every other DC project, since at least in my mind we are scientifically. :D I've only been folding for a year, but as far as I can tell it looks like incremental features, clients, and general information was added, and since the PG is so busy analyzing our WUs there wasn't a big web team for revamping things. I mean I heard they're going to change some webpages in light of v7's capabilities, but I'm really hoping that things will get easier. One thing that DC projects all have in common as that they are all intrinsically a bit technical. And that can turn people away, so it's something we should minimize. If you have a specific suggestion as to what should be changed, post it on this thread which I started for this purpose: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=19643 and perhaps someone will take care of it. Development on v6 has halted since v7 is a unification of all previous clients, should replace them when it comes out in a month or two, and has the -advanced option.
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Re: Machine ID Bug? FAH iMac 27" i7 ATI Radeon HD4850

Postby codysluder » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:18 am

MrCyberdude wrote:How about someone with some authority making the simplest step and that is to update the old client config to default with -advmethods or at least the web page with the file location and information.

I just installed SETI / BOINC Manager and selected gridrepublic.org and it just worked and the options are extensive. This is a great example of how it should be done.

I will try your settings and method later.


advmethods has nothing to do with which client you're using. It gives you the option to select Work Unit assignments that have not been as thoroughly tested as other projects. The same option exists in both the V6 client which you get from the download page or the V7 beta client which you have to look for (though it's spelled "advanced" in v7 rather than "advmethods") It should NOT be part of the installation instructions for a person's first install, which is what the web page should represent.
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