Folding again

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Re: Folding again

Postby 100%VG » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:53 pm

I called Gigabyte and my questions were answered. They actually talked to me about this older motherboard. All I need to do is get the latest BIOS installed. The EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti SSC will be fine with my 400W PSU.

Image

And should the card not work for some reason, I can always return it to Best Buy, or trade it for something else.

My Thanks go to everyone that helped me!!! You've all been great. Once I have it installed and tested, I'll come back to apply for the Beta Team.
Posting the link here, so it's easy for me to find.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10364
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Re: Folding again

Postby bruce » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:24 pm

In most cases, the combined slots provide a total of 75W max. GPUs that need more than that are provided with auxiliary power connections.
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Re: Folding again

Postby 100%VG » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:58 pm

After talking with Gigabyte on the phone and posting about it here, I started to wonder about something he said. I was told that I should be more concerned about the Voltage than the Wattage. He mentioned 3.3V and 12V. IDK if he meant the Voltage of the Slot, or of the Card installed. Can you clarify this for me?

I researched the PCIe x16 v2.0 Standard. Apparently, all versions are capable of up to 75W, but I'm still not certain how to interpret it properly for the Voltage. There's only one PCIe x16 v2.0 slot on the motherboard, if that matters.

Best Buy will have the EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti SSC in stock later this week (they were out when I visited the store). So I have a little time to find out first.
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Re: Folding again

Postby foldy » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:20 pm

I guess the phone guy meant if your GPU would have an auxiliary power connection to the power supply, then you would need to check the power supply's wattage at 12V and not the total wattage. So a 300 watt power supply may only have 200 watt on the 12V line, so it could not feed a 250+ watt GPU like the GTX 1080 Ti.

Or if you have several GPUs in the case then you need to add up the 75 watt of your 1050 Ti plus the x watts of your other GPUs to match the power supply wattage at 12V - not total wattage.

But your single gtx 1050 Ti is fine with your 400 watt power supply, cause I guess will have 250 watts at 12V which is enough for the gtx 1050 Ti and your CPU (and maybe another gtx 1050 Ti).
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Re: Folding again

Postby jrweiss » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:50 pm

Voltage stability is important for GPUs. If you have a cheap PSU or are operating a low-output PSU near its limit, it may not be able to maintain voltage during power spikes.

The 12V rail is most important for GPUs. A good PSU will be able to put virtually its entire rated output to the 12V rail if needed. If its 12V rating is significantly less than total output rating, get a new PSU.
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Re: Folding again

Postby 100%VG » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:18 pm

foldy wrote:I guess the phone guy meant if your GPU would have an auxiliary power connection to the power supply, then you would need to check the power supply's wattage at 12V and not the total wattage. So a 300 watt power supply may only have 200 watt on the 12V line, so it could not feed a 250+ watt GPU like the GTX 1080 Ti.

Or if you have several GPUs in the case then you need to add up the 75 watt of your 1050 Ti plus the x watts of your other GPUs to match the power supply wattage at 12V - not total wattage.

But your single gtx 1050 Ti is fine with your 400 watt power supply, cause I guesswill have 250 watts at 12V which is enough for the gtx 1050 Ti and your CPU (and maybe another gtx 1050 Ti).

Thanks for this. We were discussing the PCIe v2.0 X16 card slot itself and I'm pretty sure I told him there would be no PSU connection to the card. Plus, both cards in consideration are rated at 75W Power Consumption from the PCIe slot (not 250W+), and I told him that, too. But just in case...

The Cooler Master 400W PSU Specs on the sticker are:
+3.3V: 20A
+5.0V: 16A (120W is a combined total for +3.3V and +5.0V) [with 15W from +3.3V for the GPU] see note in red below
+12V1: 16A
+12V2: 16A (276W is a combined total for +12V1 & +12V2.) [with 60W from +12V for the GPU] see note in red below
-12V: 0.8A, 9.6W
+5VSB: 2.5A, 12.5W

+3.3V & +5V & +12V total output shall not exceed 327.9W.
I'm guessing that +12V1 is for the motherboard, and +12V2 is for the wired connectors.
jrweiss wrote:Voltage stability is important for GPUs. If you have a cheap PSU or are operating a low-output PSU near its limit, it may not be able to maintain voltage during power spikes.

The 12V rail is most important for GPUs. A good PSU will be able to put virtually its entire rated output to the 12V rail if needed. If its 12V rating is significantly less than total output rating, get a new PSU.

Thanks. It's a Cooler Master 400W PSU, so I think I'm OK on Quality.

I found the answer, worded the way I needed to hear it, in a discussion in a support thread at TechPowerUp.
Someone asked...

Q: What is the max power (watts) output of a pcie v1.0 x16 slot?
A: PCI-E 1.0 is 60W. Devices draw power from 12V and 3.3V, and cannot exceed 75W between the two.
Q: How about for pcie 2.0 x16?
A: Same thing, as far as I know, added 8-pin for high-power spec (where the actual power increase comes from) and the speed increase. There's something about PCI-E cabling (for server-type stuff), the automatic speed and link-width dynamic changes for power saving, and other such stuff unrelated to this conversation.
Q: So does this mean that slot powered gpu's like (my) hd4670 can only draw a max of 60watts from the pcie slot?
A: No, its 75W from the slot, some being 3.3V and some being 12V. That's the most any PCI-E card can use, graphics or not.
A: It's 75 Watts from the slot itself. A combination of 60W from 12V and 15W from 3.3V.

I'm going with this. This said it in a way that I could understand. Thanks again to both of you!
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Re: Folding again

Postby 100%VG » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:50 am

UPDATE:

The new GeForce 1050 Ti video card finally came in. Got it installed today and am actually folding again. Have a GPU job and a CPU job going!

I upgraded from f@h v7.3.2 to v7.4.4 today, too. f@h v7.3.2 had been configured (with help from here) to accommodate my older video card, so I'll ask for some help to get that Optimized for the better jobs I can handle now.

Got in touch with Gigabyte again and asked about the fastest CPU and best RAM for this motherboard. Was told that I can get an AMD Phenom II X6 1100T, which has 6 Cores running at 3.3GHz, and 16MB of DDR2 1066MHz RAM. So I'll be doing that before much longer. I'm just glad to be folding again for now. :)
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Re: Folding again

Postby 100%VG » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:29 pm

Hello,

I need some help again, please. I keep getting an error...

Image

This happens with pretty much anything I do on the PC, including wake it from Screen Saver. And the Screen Saver shows the Molecule, but the animation stops after a few seconds.
OpenCL.dll appears to be an NVIDIA file and it may be a leftover from the old video card. I reinstalled f@h v7.4.4 yesterday and that did not help.


And I'd like to know how to Optimize f@h v7.4.4 for Windows 10 and my new GeForce 1050 Ti. I was told to do this for the old video card a long time ago (below), and I want to revert back to Optimal settings for the jobs I can handle now.

I had edited the GPU and added:

NAME___________ VALUE
client-type_______ beta
max-packet-size__ small


And was told that this the right thing to do (back then). I want to revert to the proper settings, if necessary. Again, I upgraded from f@h v7.3.2 to v7.4.4 two or three days ago. I installed v7.4.4 on top of v7.3.2 to keep the User Configuration, and I did that BEFORE installing the new video card.

Thanks in avance.
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Re: Folding again

Postby JimboPalmer » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:26 pm

It is not clear what the old video card is, but that driver needs to removed. If it was also an Nvidia based card, then a clean install (it is a custom option) of the Driver from the Nvidia website should be all that is needed.

Drivers from other sources may not work.

The configuration options you list in red were for a old Nvidia card, you should remove them for a modern card.
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Re: Folding again

Postby 100%VG » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:33 pm

JimboPalmer wrote:It is not clear what the old video card is, but that driver needs to removed. If it was also an Nvidia based card, then a clean install (it is a custom option) of the Driver from the Nvidia website should be all that is needed.

Thanks. I used Express, so I will reinstall with Custom, Clean. BTW, the old video card was EVGA GeForce GTS 250.
JimboPalmer wrote:The configuration options you list in red were for a old Nvidia card, you should remove them for a modern card.

I found the way to remove those two entries.

I'll report back with my results. Thanks again.
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Re: Folding again

Postby JimboPalmer » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:00 pm

A GTS 250 would normally fold using Core_17 and fail, but with those parameters would fold with Core_15 and succeed. The current latest Core, and the one you will almost always see with a GTX 1050ti is Core_21.

In general, new projects use the latest Core, but existing projects remain on the Core they were started on. Core_21 has been the latest for quite a while, and almost all previous work has finished.
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Re: Folding again

Postby bruce » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:03 pm

100%VG wrote:I need some help again, please. I keep getting an error...

Image

This happens with pretty much anything I do on the PC, including wake it from Screen Saver. And the Screen Saver shows the Molecule, but the animation stops after a few seconds.
OpenCL.dll appears to be an NVIDIA file and it may be a leftover from the old video card. I reinstalled f@h v7.4.4 yesterday and that did not help.


This is one of the symptoms of a problem of incomplete driver installation. Go to http://www.nvidia.com or http://www.amd.com (depending on your GPU), download and install drivers from there.

In Windows10, this typically happens when Microsoft updates the video drivers. (They uninstall OpenCL and do not reinstall it.) In Linux, this typically happens if you fail to replace the Open Source drivers distributed with Linux.

(Most likely that popup is a result of a recent action by WindowsUpdate.)
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Re: Folding again

Postby 100%VG » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:14 am

JimboPalmer wrote:It is not clear what the old video card is, but that driver needs to removed. If it was also an Nvidia based card, then a clean install (it is a custom option) of the Driver from the Nvidia website should be all that is needed.

Drivers from other sources may not work.

The configuration options you list in red were for a old Nvidia card, you should remove them for a modern card.

That seems to have solved my problems. No more Error popup, and I'm Folding with the CPU and GPU again. Thanks again! :)
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Re: Folding again

Postby 100%VG » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:46 am

bruce wrote:This is one of the symptoms of a problem of incomplete driver installation. Go to http://www.nvidia.com or http://www.amd.com (depending on your GPU), download and install drivers from there.

In Windows10, this typically happens when Microsoft updates the video drivers. (They uninstall OpenCL and do not reinstall it.) In Linux, this typically happens if you fail to replace the Open Source drivers distributed with Linux.

(Most likely that popup is a result of a recent action by WindowsUpdate.)

Thank you, Bruce! Image I avoided the MS installation and got the Driver directly via GeForce Experience. But as JimboPalmer suggested, I did a reinstall using Custom & Clean Install. That fixed me right up. However, it is very possible that MS did the dirty on me during a Windows Update between my two installations. I think there were two Windows Updates in between. But now, with your suggestion, I know what to look for and how to handle it. Thanks again!

I'll be folding for a while "as is", and then get the upgrade CPU and RAM that I mentioned earlier, Fold with that for a while to test it, and then come back to apply for the Beta Program.

Thanks again to Jimbo! Image
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Re: Folding again

Postby bruce » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:29 pm

MS did update one of my machines about a week ago and screwed up OpenCL so your "between" scenario is probably true. Were you up-to-date in accordance with GeForce Experience?

I was actually expecting this to happen. I'm gathering information to see what FAH Development can do to avoid this problem. I needed to reproduce the scenario that others have been experiencing and I had intentionally reverted to an older set of drivers.

NVidia often has newer WHQL drivers that the minimum that satisfy the Windows Update minimum. It mas been my policy to install newer drivers so that whenever MS increases their minimums, I'm already running that level. This avoids the inevitable WU crash produced when I allow WindowsUpdate to do the install/reboot plus it allows me do to it at a more opportune time that whatever MS selects.
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