#812 folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Moderators: Site Moderators, FAHC Science Team

#812 folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby whocrazy » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:51 am

Hello there
I would like to start using folding@home again, but after v7 is released, I won't be able to do this because the interface is completely inaccessible. I am totally blind and I use a text to speech software called jaws for windows, it cannot read applications built with gtk. Can you please make future versions of folding@home v7 with a normal windows interface that can be navigated with screen readers? I dont know much about programming, so I have no idea if there is a quick fix, but I hope there is. Please help if you can, I have enjoyed using folding@home on and off for many years, and your user interface for the new v7.xx is completely inaccessible.
Thanks.
whocrazy
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby 7im » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:20 am

The v6 client will continue to be available for many years, just as the v5 client is still working now. I understand the graphical nature of V7 makes it easier for many people to run fah, and that it can also make it harder to run for other people.

But while not fully documented yet, the V7 client can be run from a command line. As the software matures from beta testing to a fully released client, more options to run the client in alternate configurations will become available, if not already available.
How to provide enough information to get helpful support
Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.
User avatar
7im
 
Posts: 10189
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:30 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby MtM » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:47 pm

During install, select custom, and 'Start fahclient manually'. This will remove any auto run functionality and as 7im said, starting FAHClient ( NOT FAHControl ) directly will make it run as console application. Though, that doesn't cover the setup procedure itself so it might not help you at all right now. A text installer at this time isn't available.
MtM
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:20 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby whocrazy » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:39 pm

Hi there.
The issue I'm having is not with the installer, but with fah control itself.
I have been hoping that there would be an all in one client that lets you configure weather to do GPU, SMP projects etc. it's the gui of fah-control itself that is the problem. If any of the developers are watching this thread, could they please take accessibility for the blind into consideration. All you need to do is to find some way of using the normal windows GUI interface.
Thanks.
whocrazy
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby darkbasic » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:31 pm

whocrazy wrote:All you need to do is to find some way of using the normal windows GUI interface.


I fear it is not possible because it has to be cross platform and it wouldn't be possible to achieve this goal with the windows GUI.
darkbasic
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:50 pm

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby MtM » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:44 pm

Look here's the thing. The setup will autodetect and set up the client's slots ( gpu, smp or uniprocessor ). You can add those using the remote client interface as well ( which is text based btw ), so you don't need FAHControl for that.

If you use a telnet client you can send text based commands through the interface, commands which can start/pause/add/remove slots for instance.

I mentioned the installer since that's the only part which isn't text based, all other interactions can be done with a text interface.
MtM
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:20 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby smoking2000 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:09 pm

I bet the text2speech engine will have a lot of fun pronouncing the PyON messages, I don't think that'll be quite the same experience as having text labels in a GUI pronounced.

GTK provides accessibility support with ATK (Accessibility Toolkit), which is also availble in PyGTK used by FAHControl. The FAHControl GUI could make use of ATK to make it more accessible.
User avatar
smoking2000
 
Posts: 469
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:20 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby whocrazy » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:55 pm

Hi there.
Can you tell me how I telnet into the program?
Thanks.
whocrazy
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby smoking2000 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:12 pm

Open a Command prompt and type: telnet localhost 36330

Please note that the telnet client in Windows doesn't support the output very well, it messes up the line ends which may confuse your screen reader.
User avatar
smoking2000
 
Posts: 469
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:20 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby MtM » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:33 pm

If he's on windows 7 the built in telnet client won't work at all. It will break connection after typing in more then 2 chars ( it sends chars when typed, not waiting on lf/crlf ). There is a ticket for that.

I had to use PuTTYtel, with connection type set to 'raw' ( might work with others but it was the second one I tried after the default telnet didn't work ). There are options there to configure the right line end character in the terminal settings, I think it was 'Implicit CR in every LF' but it could be 'Implicit LF in every CR' as well.

I hope btw it works with your screen reader, I have no idea.
MtM
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:20 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby whocrazy » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:56 am

yuck. what an ugly interface.
Can I do things like set weather I want to do GPU work units etc? this interface is a very steep learning curve, you can only telnet to it while the client is running and doing a work unit.
Please, to the beta team, Please provide a normal user interface for the windows port, I find it really hard figuring out the various telnet commands.
Maybe you could add a remote web interface rather than a telnet one? that way I could use my browser of choice.
Cheers.
whocrazy
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby bruce » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:03 am

The telnet interface was never intended to be any kind of a replacement for the GUI in FAHControl. It does present an API upon which a developer could build alternate front-end softeare, including (possibly) one that could be used by the blind. I don't see it as something that fits within the original design goals of V7. Many of those original design goals are being met and others remain as future goals. It's unlikely that Stanford will add a new goal at this time, no matter how admirable that goal may be.

In the short term, a 3rd party programmer might volunteer to build a new text-based or web-based interface right on top of the source code for FAHControl. The interface with FAHClient is done and if it only prints the screens for Novice skill-level in Phase 1, it should be useable. The Advanced Skill-level screens could come as part of Phase 2.

Anybody want to tackle it?
bruce
 
Posts: 20140
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: So. Cal.

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby MtM » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:46 pm

bruce wrote:The telnet interface was never intended to be any kind of a replacement for the GUI in FAHControl. It does present an API upon which a developer could build alternate front-end softeare, including (possibly) one that could be used by the blind. I don't see it as something that fits within the original design goals of V7. Many of those original design goals are being met and others remain as future goals. It's unlikely that Stanford will add a new goal at this time, no matter how admirable that goal may be.

In the short term, a 3rd party programmer might volunteer to build a new text-based or web-based interface right on top of the source code for FAHControl. The interface with FAHClient is done and if it only prints the screens for Novice skill-level in Phase 1, it should be useable. The Advanced Skill-level screens could come as part of Phase 2.

Anybody want to tackle it?


Smoking2000 pointed out that FAHControl can support accessibility with ATK, afaik it should be as 'simple' as adding it as dependency or linking to it during build ( python != me ). Why not ask Joseph about it, maybe it is indeed as simple as that. And if not, then it might be a good time for referring to 3rd party for help.

Not sure about the installer, I would guess some do support accessibility and others do not, never really looked into it. I do know there are some programs which can read control text and simulate mouse clicks but other then that...

For whocrazy, did you read the web page explaining the remote interface? It's located here -> https://fah-web.stanford.edu/projects/F ... eInterface

Maybe if you had not already, it would make the interface better understandable.
MtM
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:20 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby whocrazy » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:19 am

Hi there. Yes, I have. It's a bit hard to work out what's what. it's very confusing and I keep getting the command syntax wrong.
whocrazy
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: #812 folding home beta 7 inaccessible to the blind

Postby Jesse_V » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:25 am

Congratulations. There's now an open ticket about it, #812. Let's see what becomes of it.
F@h is now the top computing platform on the planet and nothing unites people like a dedicated fight against a common enemy. This virus affects all of us. Lets end it together.
Jesse_V
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 2851
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:44 am
Location: Western Washington

Next

Return to V7.1.52 Windows/Linux

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron