Points drop off

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Re: Points drop off

Postby bruce » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:15 am

Xavier Zepherious wrote:All I can say it is FIX THE POINT ASSESSMENT
I think you need to separate baseline points from bonus points. If your willing to forgo the bonus, there's nothing to fix.

7546 est PPD- 34k
7645 est PPD 34k
7085 - 30k PPD est
8064 43k
8065 46k
7083 29k
7032 38k


7546 is unknown. maybe you meant 7646.

Proj Tmout Dedln Points K-factor
7645 10.40 17.30 2250.00 4.00
7085 5.64 9.39 1220.83 3.00
8064 3.70 8.10 201.60 0.75
8065 3.70 8.10 201.60 0.75
7083 5.64 9.39 1220.83 3.00
7032 33.30 72.10 1804.65 0.75

Bonus points are calculated by a forumula that compares how quickly you complete that project IN RELATION TO THE DEADLINE FOR THAT PROJECT. Please refer to http://folding.stanford.edu/English/FAQ-PointsNew and notice the term . Note that they specifically say "some projects require fast completion and thus have short deadlines" Those short or longer deadlines enter the calculations by way of the K-factor. You'll also notice that the quotent deadline_length / elapsed_time occurs repeatedly.

Also note that there is a wide variation in K-factor for the projects you've identified.

Bonus points are not intended to be uniform for all projects nor are they uniform for all hardware.

Only the baseline points are benchmarked, not the bonus points. I suspect that if you calculate the baseline points for each of those projects, excluding the bonus, you'll get reasonable values.
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Re: Points drop off

Postby 7im » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:38 am

I'll be more than happy to contact the resarcher running projects 806x to get the points reduced so that the work units all score in the 30-35K points range for you.
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Re: Points drop off

Postby Frontiers » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:59 pm

Hello all at Pande Group!

Looks like I have with V7 client very similar or the same problem as topic starter.

My CPU is HT enabled Xeon 6 core at 3900 MHz | 6 GB of RAM | OS is Win7 x64.
Any SMP WU's that I process last week with FAHcore GRO-A4 has rather strange behaviour: every 1.5-2% of WUs progress PPD is oscilating|skewing|floating from about half of maximum PPD to maximum PPD.
Say, WUs 8049 at the beginning oscilates from about ~17000-20000 PPD to about ~32000-40000 PPD.
At the end of calculation this WUs has smaller floating, from ~22000-23000 to 27000-33000 PPD.
TPF has the same floating too, from ~46s to ~1m15 sec for this WU.
Situation is not depend on OPENMM GPU core running or not - SMP PPD drop in place, but floating/oscilations of SMP TPF in both cases preserves.
Situation is the same with all WU that I processed last week - 7xxx 80xx.


The problem definitely is not in my hardware/software setup, because:
- all external processes like firewalls/antiviruses/pagers are disabled
- swap-file is disabled, i.e. = 0
- behaviour of all WUs with V7 client is the same
- there is no any throttling or multiplier change, because max Tcores is about 70-72 C and I monitor CPU multiplier at CPU-Z during FAHcore work
- there is no any significant MB clocks skewing, because I tune CPU PLL voltage & QPI PLL voltage to max. stable resulting frequency with the help of CPU-Z 1.61 x64, it shows that max CPU frequency skewing is about +0.5 Mhz around 3905 MHz, QPI link has smaller skewing, BCLK has no any skewing (not sufficient resolution of CPU-Z).
- power planning in Win7 is set to max productivity
- previous version of SMP client, 6.34 with GRO-A3 core - works rock solid without any TPF/PPD floating/oscillations during calculation at the same rig with the same operating system|drivers|software.

So, my suggestion that we have some problem in V7 with GRO-A4, at least in comparison with 6.34 with GRO-A3.
Or maybe it's just a V7 client monitoring issue, but third party's F@H monitors are not allowed to monitor V7 logs.
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Re: Points drop off

Postby Joe_H » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:48 pm

Frontiers wrote:Any SMP WU's that I process last week with FAHcore GRO-A4 has rather strange behaviour: every 1.5-2% of WUs progress PPD is oscilating|skewing|floating from about half of maximum PPD to maximum PPD.
Say, WUs 8049 at the beginning oscilates from about ~17000-20000 PPD to about ~32000-40000 PPD.

As I mentioned in my response to the OP, this is a known issue with the V7 folding client. It shows up more with smaller WU's like the SMP 8000 series. The variance is less with other projects. See Ticket 888 - https://fah-web.stanford.edu/projects/F ... ticket/888. To get an accurate estimate of the PPD, examine the log file to get an average TPF over at least 10%. You can use one of the online points calculators.

Frontiers wrote:Or maybe it's just a V7 client monitoring issue, but third party's F@H monitors are not allowed to monitor V7 logs.

This is not true. There are updated versions of some third party monitoring tools that work with V7.

Edit: I have been reminded that third party developers have been asked not to access the logs directly. They do have access to the information through other means. You can still display the log in FAHControl, or go directly to it yourself.
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Re: Points drop off

Postby P5-133XL » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:02 pm

Try HFM.net to monitor your v7 clients. While not totally bug free yet, it still does a good job without the issues that FAHControl has with monitoring.

When I see significant frame time variations in the log (Not FAHControl which has issues being accurate) I'd strongly encourage you to pay very careful attention to non-folding processes. The SMP cores are very sensitive to external CPU usage with even a 5%-10% CPU usage commonly causing a doubling (or more) of the frame times. There are lots of internal processes that come and go that can use that kind of CPU usage on an intermittent basis. For Windows svhost.exe spoolsv.exe, wmiprvse.exe are all common CPU leach processes that are built into Windows. That does not include external application if the machine is being used like your browser, or flash, indexing, backup, defragging, ....
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Re: Points drop off

Postby Frontiers » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:42 pm

Now I use FAH GPU Tracker V2 + FAHSpy, work fine without any PPD floating.
Obviously, floating was an issue of FAHmonitor from V7 client or maybe some feature of bonus calculating system.
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Re: Points drop off

Postby BigApplePi » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:46 pm

Running SMP project 7645 with an ETA of 27.83 days. I don't think it's going to finish by the deadline. Windows 7 64-bit, i7CPU, 2.67 GHz. GPU is Titan with estimated 30k ppd for project 8074.

Any opinion as to what is wrong? I don't know what to look for. Thank you.
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Re: Points drop off

Postby bollix47 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:54 pm

Please post your log including the System Info and Config sections as explained here.
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Re: Points drop off

Postby BigApplePi » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:46 pm

Requested log:


Code: Select all
*********************** Log Started 2013-07-12T13:16:17Z ***********************
13:16:17:************************* Folding@home Client *************************
13:16:17:      Website: http://folding.stanford.edu/
13:16:17:    Copyright: (c) 2009-2012 Stanford University
13:16:17:       Author: Joseph Coffland <joseph@cauldrondevelopment.com>
13:16:17:         Args: --lifeline 2152 --command-port=36330
13:16:17:       Config: C:/Users/BAP/AppData/Roaming/FAHClient/config.xml
13:16:17:******************************** Build ********************************
13:16:17:      Version: 7.2.9
13:16:17:         Date: Oct 3 2012
13:16:17:         Time: 18:05:48
13:16:17:      SVN Rev: 3578
13:16:17:       Branch: fah/trunk/client
13:16:17:     Compiler: Intel(R) C++ MSVC 1500 mode 1200
13:16:17:      Options: /TP /nologo /EHa /Qdiag-disable:4297,4103,1786,279 /Ox -arch:SSE
13:16:17:               /QaxSSE2,SSE3,SSSE3,SSE4.1,SSE4.2 /Qopenmp /Qrestrict /MT /Qmkl
13:16:17:     Platform: win32 XP
13:16:17:         Bits: 32
13:16:17:         Mode: Release
13:16:17:******************************* System ********************************
13:16:17:          CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz
13:16:17:       CPU ID: GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 26 Stepping 4
13:16:17:         CPUs: 8
13:16:17:       Memory: 3.99GiB
13:16:17:  Free Memory: 3.16GiB
13:16:17:      Threads: WINDOWS_THREADS
13:16:17:   On Battery: false
13:16:17:   UTC offset: -4
13:16:17:          PID: 2604
13:16:17:          CWD: C:/Users/BAP/AppData/Roaming/FAHClient
13:16:17:           OS: Windows 7 Professional
13:16:17:      OS Arch: AMD64
13:16:17:         GPUs: 1
13:16:17:        GPU 0: NVIDIA:3 GK110 [GeForce GTX Titan]
13:16:17:         CUDA: 3.5
13:16:17:  CUDA Driver: 5050
13:16:17:Win32 Service: false
13:16:17:***********************************************************************
13:16:17:<config>
13:16:17:  <!-- Folding Slot Configuration -->
13:16:17:  <gpu v='true'/>
13:16:17:
13:16:17:  <!-- Network -->
13:16:17:  <proxy v=':8080'/>
13:16:17:
13:16:17:  <!-- User Information -->
13:16:17:  <passkey v='********************************'/>
13:16:17:  <team v='328'/>
13:16:17:  <user v='BigApplePi'/>
13:16:17:
13:16:17:  <!-- Folding Slots -->
13:16:17:  <slot id='0' type='GPU'/>
13:16:17:  <slot id='1' type='SMP'>
13:16:17:    <cpus v='-1'/>
13:16:17:    <smp v='true'/>
13:16:17:  </slot>
13:16:17:</config>
13:16:17:Trying to access database...
13:16:17:Successfully acquired database lock
13:16:17:Enabled folding slot 00: READY gpu:0:"GK110 [GeForce GTX Titan]"
13:16:17:WARNING:FS01:'smp' option has no effect on a slot configuration.  Use <slot type='smp'>...</slot> instead.
13:16:17:Enabled folding slot 01: READY smp:8
13:16:17:WU01:FS01:Starting
13:16:17:WU01:FS01:Running FahCore: "C:\Program Files (x86)\FAHClient/FAHCoreWrapper.exe" C:/Users/Bob/AppData/Roaming/FAHClient/cores/www.stanford.edu/~pande/Win32/AMD64/Core_a4.fah/FahCore_a4.exe -dir 01 -suffix 01 -version 702 -lifeline 2604 -checkpoint 15 -np 8
13:16:17:WU01:FS01:Started FahCore on PID 1056
13:16:17:WU01:FS01:Core PID:384
13:16:17:WU01:FS01:FahCore 0xa4 started
13:16:18:Server connection id=1 on 0.0.0.0:36330 from 127.0.0.1
13:16:18:WU02:FS00:Starting
13:16:18:WU02:FS00:Running FahCore: "C:\Program Files (x86)\FAHClient/FAHCoreWrapper.exe" C:/Users/Bob/AppData/Roaming/FAHClient/cores/www.stanford.edu/~pande/Win32/AMD64/NVIDIA/Fermi/Core_15.fah/FahCore_15.exe -dir 02 -suffix 01 -version 702 -lifeline 2604 -checkpoint 15 -gpu 0
13:16:18:WU02:FS00:Started FahCore on PID 2044
13:16:18:WU01:FS01:0xa4:
13:16:18:WU01:FS01:0xa4:*------------------------------*
13:16:18:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Folding@Home Gromacs GB Core
13:16:18:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Version 2.27 (Dec. 15, 2010)
13:16:18:WU01:FS01:0xa4:
13:16:18:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Preparing to commence simulation
13:16:18:WU01:FS01:0xa4:- Ensuring status. Please wait.
13:16:18:WU02:FS00:Core PID:3064
13:16:18:WU02:FS00:FahCore 0x15 started
13:16:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:
13:16:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:*------------------------------*
13:16:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:Folding@Home GPU Core
13:16:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:Version                2.25 (Wed May 9 17:03:01 EDT 2012)
13:16:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:Build host             AmoebaRemote
13:16:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:Board Type             NVIDIA/CUDA
13:16:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:Core                   15
13:16:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:
13:16:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:Window's signal control handler registered.
13:16:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:Preparing to commence simulation
13:16:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:- Ensuring status. Please wait.
13:16:28:WU01:FS01:0xa4:- Looking at optimizations...
13:16:28:WU01:FS01:0xa4:- Working with standard loops on this execution.
13:16:28:WU01:FS01:0xa4:- Previous termination of core was improper.
13:16:28:WU01:FS01:0xa4:- Files status OK
13:16:28:WU01:FS01:0xa4:- Expanded 547425 -> 848180 (decompressed 154.9 percent)
13:16:28:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=547425 data_size=848180, decompressed_data_size=848180 diff=0
13:16:28:WU01:FS01:0xa4:- Digital signature verified
13:16:28:WU01:FS01:0xa4:
13:16:28:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Project: 7645 (Run 486, Clone 0, Gen 100)
13:16:28:WU01:FS01:0xa4:
13:16:28:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Entering M.D.
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:- Looking at optimizations...
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:- Working with standard loops on this execution.
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:- Previous termination of core was improper.
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:- Files status OK
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:sizeof(CORE_PACKET_HDR) = 512 file=<>
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:- Expanded 59756 -> 264598 (decompressed 442.7 percent)
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=59756 data_size=264598, decompressed_data_size=264598 diff=0
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:- Digital signature verified
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:Project: 8074 (Run 21, Clone 39, Gen 94)
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:
13:16:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:Entering M.D.
13:16:31:WU02:FS00:0x15:Will resume from checkpoint file 02/wudata_01.ckp
13:16:31:WU02:FS00:0x15:Tpr hash 02/wudata_01.tpr:  1795633559 3764834978 3444140846 1888560733 1842182734
13:16:31:WU02:FS00:0x15:GPU device id=0
13:16:31:WU02:FS00:0x15:Working on Gnomes, ROck Monsters And Chili Sauce
13:16:31:WU02:FS00:0x15:Client config unavailable.
13:16:31:WU02:FS00:0x15:Starting GUI Server
13:16:34:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Using Gromacs checkpoints
13:16:34:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Mapping NT from 8 to 8
13:16:39:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Resuming from checkpoint
13:16:39:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Verified 01/wudata_01.log
13:16:39:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Verified 01/wudata_01.trr
13:16:39:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Verified 01/wudata_01.xtc
13:16:39:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Verified 01/wudata_01.edr
13:16:40:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Completed 923960 out of 2500000 steps  (36%)
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:Resuming from checkpoint
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:fcCheckPointResume: retreived and current tpr file hash:
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:   0   1795633559   1795633559
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:   1   3764834978   3764834978
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:   2   3444140846   3444140846
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:   3   1888560733   1888560733
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:   4   1842182734   1842182734
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:fcCheckPointResume: file hashes same.
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:fcCheckPointResume: state restored.
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:fcCheckPointResume: name 02/wudata_01.log Verified 02/wudata_01.log
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:fcCheckPointResume: name 02/wudata_01.trr Verified 02/wudata_01.trr
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:fcCheckPointResume: name 02/wudata_01.xtc Verified 02/wudata_01.xtc
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:fcCheckPointResume: name 02/wudata_01.edr Verified 02/wudata_01.edr
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:fcCheckPointResume: state restored 2
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:Resumed from checkpoint
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:Setting checkpoint frequency: 500000
13:17:45:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed   4500001 out of 50000000 steps (9%).
13:17:46:WARNING:WU02:FS00:Detected clock skew (1 mins 17 secs), adjusting time estimates
13:19:29:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed   5000000 out of 50000000 steps (10%).
13:21:20:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed   5500000 out of 50000000 steps (11%).
13:23:09:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed   6000000 out of 50000000 steps (12%).
13:25:06:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed   6500000 out of 50000000 steps (13%).
13:27:01:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed   7000000 out of 50000000 steps (14%).
13:28:57:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed   7500000 out of 50000000 steps (15%).
13:30:48:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed   8000000 out of 50000000 steps (16%).
13:32:40:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed   8500000 out of 50000000 steps (17%).
13:34:33:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed   9000000 out of 50000000 steps (18%).
13:36:43:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed   9500000 out of 50000000 steps (19%).
13:37:50:WU01:FS01:0xa4:Completed 925000 out of 2500000 steps  (37%)
13:38:36:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  10000000 out of 50000000 steps (20%).
13:40:27:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  10500000 out of 50000000 steps (21%).
13:42:18:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  11000000 out of 50000000 steps (22%).
13:44:09:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  11500000 out of 50000000 steps (23%).
13:46:18:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  12000000 out of 50000000 steps (24%).
13:48:09:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  12500000 out of 50000000 steps (25%).
13:50:00:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  13000000 out of 50000000 steps (26%).
13:51:51:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  13500000 out of 50000000 steps (27%).
13:53:42:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  14000000 out of 50000000 steps (28%).
13:55:33:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  14500000 out of 50000000 steps (29%).
13:57:24:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  15000000 out of 50000000 steps (30%).
13:59:15:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  15500000 out of 50000000 steps (31%).
14:01:06:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  16000000 out of 50000000 steps (32%).
14:02:57:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  16500000 out of 50000000 steps (33%).
14:04:48:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  17000000 out of 50000000 steps (34%).
14:06:39:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  17500000 out of 50000000 steps (35%).
14:08:30:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  18000000 out of 50000000 steps (36%).
14:10:21:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  18500000 out of 50000000 steps (37%).
14:12:12:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  19000000 out of 50000000 steps (38%).
14:14:03:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  19500000 out of 50000000 steps (39%).
14:15:54:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  20000000 out of 50000000 steps (40%).
14:17:44:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  20500000 out of 50000000 steps (41%).
14:19:35:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  21000000 out of 50000000 steps (42%).
14:21:26:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  21500000 out of 50000000 steps (43%).
14:23:17:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  22000000 out of 50000000 steps (44%).
14:25:08:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  22500000 out of 50000000 steps (45%).
14:26:59:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  23000000 out of 50000000 steps (46%).
14:28:50:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  23500000 out of 50000000 steps (47%).
14:30:41:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  24000000 out of 50000000 steps (48%).
14:32:32:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  24500000 out of 50000000 steps (49%).
14:34:23:WU02:FS00:0x15:Completed  25000000 out of 50000000 steps (50%).
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Re: Points drop off

Postby bollix47 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:55 pm

There are two things that I would suggest:

1. Add client-type advanced to your GPU slot. FAHControl>Configure>Slots ... double click on GPU slot and click on Add:
Name: client-type
Value: advanced
click on Ok and Save
2. Change your CPU slot from -1 to 6 ... you could also try 7 but it has been known to fail on some projects and won't really gain much in PPD.
FAHControl .... right-click on CPU slot and select Pause ... Configure>Slots ... double click on CPU slot and change the number in the CPUs box from -1 to 6 ... click on Ok and Save ... right-click on CPU slot and select Fold

After the current GPU core_15 work unit finishes the client should download a core_17 work unit and you should see a rather large increase in PPD.
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Re: Points drop off

Postby Joe_H » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:39 pm

The estimated time of completion can be wildly inaccurate right after a restart, it should settle down after the WU completes a full frame. The WU's from project 7645 are on the large size, as I recall from processing a few in the past my i7 860 iMac took a total processing time of about 3.5 days. So depending on how much time your system is running each day, you should be able to complete the WU within the preferred deadline.

One other thing that will slow SMP processing down considerably is if other processes on your system are regularly using CPU time on one core. Then reducing the SMP count as recommended above can actually improve throughput.
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Re: Points drop off

Postby BigApplePi » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:38 am

I made the two changes you (bollix47) suggested. Can't find previous logs as a search for log.txt finds nothing. Not sure where the "Data Directory" is located. Later: I waited a few hours (note Joe_H) and now the ETA has improved from 28 days to 1.93 days. The GPU WU has also improved.

Side question: The FAHControl Window always displays either the GPU WU or the SMP WU statistics in the right hand section. Is there a way to control which of these is displayed?
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Re: Points drop off

Postby bollix47 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:51 am

For the Data Directory ... click on Start>All Programs>FAHClient>Data Directory

With FAHControl you click on the slot in the middle pane that you want to see in the right hand section.
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Re: Points drop off

Postby 7im » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:52 am

And right-click on a slot to control it, Pause, Fold, Finish, etc.
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7im
 
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Re: Points drop off

Postby Napoleon » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:22 am

One more thing in the log:
Code: Select all
13:16:17:  <slot id='1' type='SMP'>
13:16:17:    <cpus v='-1'/>
13:16:17:    <smp v='true'/>
13:16:17:  </slot>
13:16:17:</config>
13:16:17:Trying to access database...
13:16:17:Successfully acquired database lock
13:16:17:Enabled folding slot 00: READY gpu:0:"GK110 [GeForce GTX Titan]"
13:16:17:WARNING:FS01:'smp' option has no effect on a slot configuration.  Use <slot type='smp'>...</slot> instead.

You'll probably want to remove the smp=true option in order to get rid of the warning.
Win7 64bit, FAH v7, OC'd
2C/4T Atom330 3x667MHz - GT430 2x832.5MHz - ION iGPU 3x466.7MHz
NaCl - Core_15 - display
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