Nvidia GT 240 drivers windows 7 update problem

[Walter]

I have an Nvidia Geforce GT 240 gpu that I use for Folding@Home GPU. Everything is fine as long as I use the drivers from 2010 (graphics version 260.99). If I update to newer drivers I get severe screen delay. This wasn't a problem until this month. I have my windows update settings set to "ask me first" so I would just not select any driver updates for my graphics card. Before this month the graphics drivers were listed as optional by windows update. Unfortunately there is a new driver from Nvidia that is classified as "important" and even though I never select it to be installed it is getting installed anyway. I find this out when I look at the "shutdown" button and it says "install then shutdown." Do you know any way around this problem except telling windows never to install drivers. This would seem to disable plug and play.

Thank you for any advice,

Walter Hamilton

[P5-133XL]

I don't ever allow Microsoft to update drivers. The basic theory is that one is not supposed to "fix" that which is already working for all that you can do is break the system. So, I do not want Microsoft update to auto-install anything. Updates are always done manually. I've been burned too many times by Microsoft breaking a totally working setup. Drivers are particularly sensitive to down-grading to a version that does not include later required functionality causing my HW/SW not to work anymore. I want control rather than giving up that control to Microsoft.

I have never noticed the lack of a Microsoft updated drivers affecting plug and play at all. The default drivers may not be optimum but they functionally work.

You can, of course, choose differently than me. In that case I have no solution...

[bruce]

I'm with P5-133XL. I never set Microsoft Update / Windows Update to allow unrestricted automatic updates.

Microsoft used to nag me continuously to change my setting because it was a serious breach of computer security. We've reached a compromise where their warnings are now at a tolerable level. I still do go through their recommendations and select which updates to apply and when to apply them, but I'm the one who makes the decisions, not them.

In the case of Drivers (All drivers, not just video drivers), I compare what MS recommends to what the vendor recommends, throw in forum and other reports if there are any, and then I ALWAYS install driver updates separately from any other updates. That way it's relatively easy to notice if there are new problems introduced and go through a driver roll-back if it makes sense. I've been burned by MS's driver updates more than once.

[Walter]

I just changed my windows update preferences for drivers to never from ask me. I hope this works because windows update was installing the new drivers even after it had asked me and I chose no. I strongly suspect this has something to do with windows 8 even though I have windows 7. There were some updates to windows 7 that said something about windows 8 so I assume Microsoft is trying to add some features or compatability from 8 to 7 that somehow need a change in drivers to the video card. I say this because I have used these 2010 drivers without windows ever trying to replace them without my permission. Each time I have installed the old drivers windows gave me 3 days to install the new ones before it did it on its own regardless of my wishes. I guess I will know in a few days. I know when this happens because there is an icon over the shutdown button telling me something will be installed if I shut the machine down. As long as I don't shut down the machine I keep the old drivers.

[Walter]

The drivers windows is trying to install are for WDDM 1.1 and 1.2. WDDM 1.2 seem to be introduced for windows 8. Although I changed my preferences to never update my drivers windows update still lists this driver to be installed AND will in fact install it as soon as I shut down my machine. According to AnandTech WDDM 1.2 is supposed to deal with programs creating delays with other programs using the gpu. So far this has not worked with FAH GPU as I get a several second delay in screen movement once this driver is installed.

[P5-133XL]

It is quite possible for the new WDDM 1.2 for Windows 8 to require a new updated video driver to match the new driver model functionality. It is quite likely that older drivers will not work properly with WDDM 1.2 and that Windows 8 will insist upon installing a minimum driver that does support WDDM 1.2. Installing a driver that does not meet WDDM 1.2 will break Windows 8 and Windows update will try to fix it.

At that point there are several choices:

1. Let Windows 8 Win and install WDDM 1.2 with its driver. Then go to Nvidia and find their most recent Windows 8 driver and see if that helps with folding lag. Using pause/unpause extensively may help.
2. Let Windows 8 Win and quit GPU folding because the lag is just unacceptable. There is always hope that someday Nvidia will produce a better driver and wait till then.
3. Go back to Windows 7 and keep folding using v260.99 to minimize folding lag.

[Walter]

I don't have windows 8. I am using windows 7 64 pro. (I also have one processor running FAH and 6 running World Community Grid) Each time I reinstall my old drivers windows loads the new one to be installed if I ever shut down the machine. The drivers windows is installing have the same version numbers as the new drivers from Nvidia. I know this because the Nvidia installation shows me the current version and the version to be installed. The new drivers are version 306.97 WHQL. At some point I might just look for a newer graphics card. I don't use it for games just for FAH GPU. I picked this card because it was reasonably fast without being an energy hog. Any suggestions for a newer model that hasn't had problems with the new drivers would be welcome.

Thank you

[P5-133XL]

Regardless of the video card you pick lag will remain a problem that there is currently no good solution for. The video card subsystem was never designed for multiple use so it never developed any tools to deal with resource conflicts. With folding using 100% of the card, Windows has to wait for its time-slice. A priority system for video cards would be ideal but that is a major change that would take cooperation between Microsoft and the video card/driver manufacturers

There are some things you can do to help.:

Use the Aero theme
Have multiple video cards
Pick your driver version (yes, I know that 260.99 was really a good version)
Turn off anything that uses the GPU (flash, browser, etc.) to help render the screen. Personally I have not had good luck turning these features off.
use pause and unpause extensively.

[Walter]

If I install a second video card could I assign FAH GPU to one and use the other for my monitor? From what I have seen online both cards need to be able to use the same driver or conflicts arise. Is this true?

Thank you.

[P5-133XL]

Yes, you can choose to just use one for folding and one for Windows.

To my knowledge if you have to use the same driver if they are the same brand (Nvidia with Nvidia). However, you can mix different brands and use different drivers (Nvidia with ATI, for example).

[bruce]

If I install a second video card could I assign FAH GPU to one and use the other for my monitor?

I do that on one of my machines. I found an old (slow) video card that's doing nothing but driving my screen and a new (fast) one that's folding. That might not be the best choice for you, but at least you would be able to choose.

The fundamental problem that most people will have is finding two graphics cards that can be supported on your motherboard.

[Napoleon]

Maybe I've just been lucky, but integrated GPU for Windows + NVidia GPU for folding has worked well for me. For example, quite recently I successfully mixed a 9400GT with an ancient Ati Xpress200 based mobo, running XP. The AMD/ATI drivers are legacy stuff, latest WHQL for the 9400GT.

[Walter]

The suggestion of using two video cards worked well. I put in a Radeon RS450 which I used when my previous GT 240's fan died, used it for my monitor and the GT 240 (now with the newest Nvidia drivers) is for the FAH GPU. The screen lag is gone.

Thank you everyone.

[Walter]

I have to enter a correction. The video problem was solved, BUT now I have no audio. If I install each video card separately I have audio. If I use the Radeon card Windows uses a Realtek audio driver and one windows high def audio driver. If I use the Nvidia card it uses 4 windows high def audio drivers. It used to use Nvidia audio drivers, but I removed them hoping that would solve the problem. It does not matter which card I use for the monitor. When I start Sony Sound Forge I get an error that Micorsoft Sound Mapper is missing or in use by another application. Windows Media says there is a problem with my sound device. It is either not there or in use by another application.

I guess I will have to get a second Nvidia card and hope that solves the audio problem.

[bruce]

Have you reported this to NVidia and/or Microsoft? I would call it a bug in the drivers.

Something to try: Install everything, producing too many HighDef audio drivers. Don't remove anything. In Device manager, disable all but one. Be sure you're using a HDMI or DVI cable which supports sound and that it's connected to a monitor that supports sound and reboot. During reboot, the Sound Mapper should locate the proper speaker connection.

Alternately, use a VGA cable (no speaker connection) and plug speakers into the headphone jack or motherboard sound jacks before rebooting.