New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settings

It seems that a lot of GPU problems revolve around specific versions of drivers. Though AMD has their own support structure, you can often learn from information reported by others who fold.

Moderators: Site Moderators, PandeGroup

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby jrweiss » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:17 am

I am surprised that a 750W, Silver rated PSU can't put out 350-400 Watts or so. OTOH, there are a lot of bad reviews on it on Amazon...

If the OP gets CPUid HWMon running, he may be able to monitor the 12V rail voltage stability while testing it...
i4770K/AMD RX460 (CPU6+GPU), i7-3770S/AMD7750 (CPU6+GPU), Win7-64 Pro
User avatar
jrweiss
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Gotta guess!

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby wilding2004 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:31 pm

The 750 figure is probably just the maximums from each rail added together. Admitedly not many manufacturers still do this, but there's always some that will. I doubt that PSU can actually deliver anywhere near 750w. Just had a quick look on google, and that model only has an efficency of 78%, so it doesn't even meet "bronze" certification, never mind silver.
wilding2004
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:16 pm

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby phrost » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:00 pm

Wow so many replies. It's awesome having such a helpful community. I'm not as tech savvy as some of you guys are, this is actually the first computer I've ever built. Although I've been folding for about 10 years, I recently converted from being a console gamer to PC gamer, so I built this computer with a 280x and recently swapped it out for a 390x. I had no trouble folding with both CPU and GPU before on Full. Now, I can't have both running on Medium, only Light. So instead, I decided to run the GPU on Full only.. since I've come to understand that GPUs are much better at folding than CPUs anyway.


jrweiss wrote:The LNA is color coded (see the Noctua docs). Make sure you have only a simple extension installed, if needed.

Except for the initial header that shows your configs, logs are unlikely to show much, if the GPU WU will Fold fine alone. It sounds like more of a computer problem, whether configuration or heat. Post that part of your log here within the [code][/code] tags

Ensure you have 1 CPU core free for the GPU; use the F@H client to set the CPU slot to 7 cores.

A description of your case and cooling setup, possibly with pictures, might help.



I took some shots as well as a screenshot of the log viewer. http://imgur.com/a/8ujRQ

Green is GPU only and red is CPU only. I can take more if you guys want, just tell me which fields to change. I'm not sure what part of the log you want me to quote in [code] tags, so just let me know. As far my setup, I have 4 fans, 3 crappy blue LED ones and the Noctua which is right above the CPU in my photos. The other two crappy blue LED fans are on the front side of the case, where the optical drive, SSD, and HDD are located. Everything is connected to a silver rated 750watt Solid Gear Neutron PSU. Let me know if you have any more questions, btw I also added you on skype if you want to chat (and if anyone else wants to, PM me your skype (or steam name)).

bruce wrote:The TDP of the 280X is 250W and the 290X is 290W. This you're probably adding 40W more heat than you were ... and drawing 40W more power from the power supply.

You said you could run the GPU on full with the CPU slot paused. Was that the 290X? Most likely you're right at the maximum power your P/S amd/or your fans can handle and adding the CPU, too, is just too much.


on my 290x I could run both the GPU and CPU on Full. On my 390x, I can only run them on Light. Anything higher than Light causes shutdown. When I was shopping around for GPUs, I was informed that my 750watt PSU would be more than enough to power it as well as all my other components, but I guess maybe that's only true if they're not running at 100% power draw?

7im wrote:And or one of the rails is overloaded if that PSU has more than one.


I'm not really sure what that means :(

Nathan_P wrote:Definitely sounds like the PSU to me, the fact that the old gpu can fold with the cpu and not both together with the new gpu installed is a major pointer. Personally at this point I would go out and buy a decent PSU from your favourite e-tailer and by decent I mean a big name brand - seasonic, corsair, superflower etc.

Before you buy though check out some reviews from a tech site, if you want some recommendations drop me a PM.


The thing is is I already spent a lot of money on this rig. Maybe I should just run it on GPU-only? Does the CPU really contribute that much? Anyway, if you have some recommendations, I'll look into it. The only problem is that I would have to sell my PSU after, and I hate using ebay (maybe craigslist or facebook groups would work better). Anyway, I'll consider it.
jrweiss wrote:I am surprised that a 750W, Silver rated PSU can't put out 350-400 Watts or so. OTOH, there are a lot of bad reviews on it on Amazon...

If the OP gets CPUid HWMon running, he may be able to monitor the 12V rail voltage stability while testing it...


I think hwinfo does this.. do you want me to take another screenshot of the log?

wilding2004 wrote:The 750 figure is probably just the maximums from each rail added together. Admitedly not many manufacturers still do this, but there's always some that will. I doubt that PSU can actually deliver anywhere near 750w. Just had a quick look on google, and that model only has an efficency of 78%, so it doesn't even meet "bronze" certification, never mind silver.


It's rated silver.. is that just a straight up lie? It looks like my options are to get a new PSU or just run it as GPU-only.
phrost
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:00 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby Rel25917 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:36 pm

Try GPU and CPU and see what your 12v reading does. It's dipping down to 11.8 with the gpu load which isn't too low but if it drops further with the cpu load added then the power supply can't handle the load.

As for the supply itself a google search seems to indicate that it is a single rail but where did you get the silver rating from because i'm not seeing that?
Rel25917
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:31 am

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby phrost » Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:52 am

Rel25917 wrote:Try GPU and CPU and see what your 12v reading does. It's dipping down to 11.8 with the gpu load which isn't too low but if it drops further with the cpu load added then the power supply can't handle the load.

As for the supply itself a google search seems to indicate that it is a single rail but where did you get the silver rating from because i'm not seeing that?


You know, now that you mention it... I just took a look at the box and I see no rating anywhere. Nor did my search online bring anything up. This whole thread I've been saying "silver rated" for some reason, but I have no idea why. Maybe my friend told me it was silver rated and I just believed him? It looks like I need to get a new psu! :oops:
phrost
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:00 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby wilding2004 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:42 am

Rel25917 wrote:
As for the supply itself a google search seems to indicate that it is a single rail.....


It has a single 12v rail, but it still has mutliple rails for the other voltages, 3.3 5,etc. I was sugesting that the 750w figure comes from combining the total load at all voltages. This used to be standard practice, but thankfully manufacturers are a lot more honest today about their PSU's capabilities.

I suspect the PSU is struggling to deliver 12v at the load being placed on it. Also at just 78% efficiency, it will be using a lot more power from the wall than a better PSU would.
wilding2004
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:16 pm

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby Rel25917 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:53 am

The specs indicate 600w available on the 12v rail. Should be enough if the supply is working right but its looking like its starting to struggle with just the gpu load on it.
Rel25917
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:31 am

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby jrweiss » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:17 am

First, the PSU may well be the problem. I don't know what the difference is between the red and green graphs on the 12V chart. The red trace is a good one. If the green trace reflects actual voltage to the GPU, the numerous downward spikes could well be the problem. While the ATX spec is +/- 5% (0.6V), modern graphics cards are VERY sensitive to 12V voltage fluctuations.

Second, the very flat 72 deg trace on the GPU temp graph may indicate a limit set for that card. Is there any variation in GPU fan speed to keep that 72 deg max? A quick search indicates the card has a 75 deg limit before throttling sets in, so throttling may cause the crash...

I don't like that case design - too many "holes" to allow airflow to run at random. I assume, though, that you don't want to replace the case. You need to focus the airflow a bit.

In the mean time:

Is there a screen undre that PSU so you can draw air directly from outside the bottom of the case? If so, flip it around! Also, ensure that big internal PSU fan is blowing down INTO the PSU, and the PSU exhaust port in the back of the case is unobstructed. Does it run all the time, or is it otherwise controlled by temp or power output?

Put the big Noctua fan in the front intake (there IS a front fan behind that plastic, isn't there?) if possible. Ensure the LNA is NOT installed, and that it runs at 100% RPM all the time when the CPU and/or GPU are under load. Remove that front cover, or cut out some plastic to allow unobstructed airflow. Make sure you don't have any BIOS fan profiles set that would control the fans otherwise. Remember that total intake airflow capacity should be more than total exhaust.

I assume the back fan is exhaust. It, and/or the top fan, needs to get rid of the CPU heat. You don't need high-airflow fans in either position. You might even remove the top fan and put in a blocking plate.

Is that top fan set as intake or exhaust? Most top fans are set to exhaust, to get rid of the CPU heat. Again, you may or may not need it, depending on intake air.

That bottom screen next to the PSU should be blocked with clear packing tape or similar. Same with the screen on the back, next to the PCIe backplane covers, as well as the backplane cover immediately above the PSU.

A good option, if available (and maybe necessary if there is no front intake fan), is to put an intake fan over that bottom screen. You'll have to clean up your spare cables, raise the case off the floor an inch or 2, and ensure there is a good dust filter on the fan.

Your CPU cooler just stirs up the air without directing it. Any cooler with a vertical heat sink and a fan pointed toward that back exhaust fan would help. The CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO is top rated and relatively cheap ($31; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835103099).

A more involved option (if you can't flip the PSU) would be to thermally isolate the PSU from the rest of the case. Cut some sheet plastic or cardboard to block airflow to the PSU from above that PCI backplane cover immediately next to the PSU, and from the front intake fan. Allow the PSU to get its intake air from that 1 backplane cover (obviously without the tape) and either the bottom screen (without the added fan, in this case) or the second backplane cover above it.
User avatar
jrweiss
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Gotta guess!

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby jrweiss » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:49 pm

Rel25917 wrote:The specs indicate 600w available on the 12v rail. Should be enough if the supply is working right but its looking like its starting to struggle with just the gpu load on it.

That alone is a key that it is NOT a good PSU. Any modern PSU worth its salt will have a 12V rail rated to [very near] the full output of the PSU. Most of the power taken on modern computers is from the 12V rail.
User avatar
jrweiss
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Gotta guess!

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby toTOW » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:02 pm

This looks like a pretty cheap build : http://www.overclock.net/products/solid ... views/6552

It reminds me a bit of Heden or Advance PSUs :?
Folding@Home beta tester since 2002. Folding Forum moderator since July 2008.

FAH-Addict : latest news, tests and reviews about Folding@Home project.

Image
User avatar
toTOW
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 8916
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:38 am
Location: Bordeaux, France

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby phrost » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:33 pm

Just an update.. I bought this http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-V75 ... B00ISCG6MI

it seems to have good ratings, I'll keep you guys updated.

edit: also reading the new posts, just got home.
phrost
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:00 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby phrost » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:20 am

Seems to be running ok with the new PSU. The fans themselves seem to be a lot smoother with the LEDs much brighter! I think we solved the problem guys, good job. :]
phrost
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:00 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby phrost » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:59 pm

Hey guys.. been running with my PSU for about half a day now and it's looking good. I uploaded a graph with my temperatures. I guess the GPU is still throttling at 75 degrees, but that's only during folding, which I turn only runs on idle. So it's ok right?
http://i.imgur.com/dhYh9X8.png - Full folding on both CPU and GPU
phrost
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:00 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby jrweiss » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:46 pm

Running the GPU full-time at its throttling temp is NOT a good idea. You should fix the cooling around the GPU.

How much is it throttling? If you run GPUz or the performance software included with the GPU driver, what is the GPU load when that temp trace is at the top? If not over 95%, you are losing a LOT of performance due to temperature limits.
User avatar
jrweiss
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Gotta guess!

Re: New 390x causing shutdown on anything above Light settin

Postby phrost » Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:32 am

Looks like it's not throttling. 75 is just the max temp it reaches, but that's good i think?
phrost
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:00 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

PreviousNext

Return to Problems with AMD/ATI drivers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron