Answers to: Reasons for not using F@H.

[John Naylor]

I appreciate that most people express concern for the environment.

But I am getting tired of people picking on computers as being wasteful when there are things 100s to 1000s times more wasteful or harmful to the environment.

I agree...

According to the project's own Wikipedia page, if using the most efficient computers around, the F@H network would use 2.8 megawatts. Accounting for inefficiencies and the power used to transmit WUs over the internet, lets say it uses 20MW. A TGV trainset, developments of which run over the world, normally draws around 10MW. So two TGVs use the same amount of power as the entire F@H network. I think that's actually pretty good value for your 20MW tbh, and these claims against the project, while valid, are overstated...

[Mike Ferguson]

So while it's a big frigging lie to say that FAH isn't impacting the environment..

This is a forum supporting advanced scientific research. With that in mind...

"PROVE IT!"

That's the first thing you'll hear on your first job as an engineer or a scientist, after you've made an unsupported assertion.
The "proof" which you then offer your more experienced peers will be picked apart until you separate the reality from the mere "viewpoint".

What constitutes proof? All facts, figures, data- supported with links, etc. The quest for proof becomes the quest for truth.
Assertions by this or that politician or advocacy group are not applicable as elements of proof unless documented with hard data.

The generators used to run F@h equipment undeniably produce CO2, but how much of a problem is that amount of CO2?

The floor is yours.

Facts are not truth. Facts are mere facets of the clear diamond of truth. -Alan

Saying that my point is an unsupported assertion will definately need proof. My view is based in fact, as per earlier posts in this very thread.

I'm not an engineer or a scientist, but I am going to make ANOTHER unsupported assertion: even if I found proofs, they wouldn't be good enough for you.

[alancabler]

Hi Mike,
It's good to see that you're still in this conversation. Let's see where we can take it...

Saying that my point is an unsupported assertion will definately need proof. My view is based in fact, as per earlier posts in this very thread.

If claims that FAH impacts the environment depend on the presumption that "since FAH adds CO2, then it is causes an eco- impact"- an argument which would also include my son's pet rabbit- then the topic becomes:
How much does FAH impact the environment? That's the real question, isn't it?

I'm not an engineer or a scientist, but I am going to make ANOTHER unsupported assertion: even if I found proofs, they wouldn't be good enough for you.

Scientists and engineers undergo rigorous training in order to develop their capacity for critical thinking. Their ultimate aim is to discern the truth of things. You don't need to be a scientist, just adopt the scientist's goal.

[7im]

My completely unsupported assertion is that FAH impacts the environment in a relatively miniscule way as compared to the polution added by transportion and cow farts.

Okay, I will add one small tidbit of support. If I can equally offset my home computer's impact by swapping out only 2 incandescent lightbulbs for 2 CFLs, and if I still have 20 more lights to go swap out, then by direct comparison, the impact of my home computer is VERY small.

No, it's not an exact number. But on a relative scale that us non-scientific types can understand, that does seem to frame the information such that we can all comprehend it. Put down that hamburger, and turn your computer back on. Not only could you be avoiding Mad Cow disease, but you could be helping to treat or cure it as well. plus helping the environment. What could be better?

[anandhanju]

Never knew cow farts were so noxious. Well, that explains their glassy eyed looks

[7im]

Never knew cow farts were so noxious. Well, that explains their glassy eyed looks

Actually, their burps are worse. But ya, check the linked info I posted on the previous page.

[alancabler]

Ruminants off earth now!

[7im]

Ruminants off earth now!

Could it be the aliens doing experiments on bovines are actually burger loving humans from the future trying to solve the problem of COW CO2? Maybe we didn't do enough to promote non-fossil fuel alternatives, the environment when to cow crap, and the future humans eventually banned burgers from the planet? Stranger things have happened.

[alancabler]

Ruminants off earth now!

Could it be the aliens doing experiments on bovines are actually burger loving humans from the future trying to solve the problem of COW CO2? Maybe we didn't do enough to promote non-fossil fuel alternatives, the environment when to cow crap, and the future humans eventually banned burgers from the planet? Stranger things have happened.

Would that be the future when cows can fly?


Ok, here are some numbers for Mike...
Man- made methane addition to the atmosphere is about 18% of methane from all sources. However, when weighted with methane's effect in concert with all other greenhouse gases, then methane (from all anthropogenic sources) contribution to the "Greenhouse Effect," expressed as % of Total of All Greenhouse Effect Gases is .066%.
Going further, the total of all anthropogenic GHG emissions is about .28% of total greenhouse gas emissions from all sources. Not much.
When considering the enormous costs in terms of human suffering and sacrifice which would result from full implementation of the Kyoto Accords (not to mention even more Draconian proposals), would the tiny insignificant reduction in GHGs be worth it?

[road-runner]

I planted two trees today and washed my dishes by hand instead on the dishwasher so I am going to keep folding....

[alancabler]

I planted two trees today and washed my dishes by hand instead on the dishwasher so I am going to keep folding....

What a folding farm! Great job! Probably wouldn't hurt anything if you planted another tree.
I had a dishwasher too, but she moved to Virginia.

[road-runner]

I planted two trees today and washed my dishes by hand instead on the dishwasher so I am going to keep folding....

What a folding farm! Great job! Probably wouldn't hurt anything if you planted another tree.
I had a dishwasher too, but she moved to Virginia.

Hey I am going to plant 4 more trees maybe 5 next week...

[Ericson_Mar]

I have a thread here going that I think might help with getting more people to join.
It involves "banners" that are designed to quickly point out the benefits of FAH.
The idea is to "capture the heart"...if it works as intended.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2276

[Xilikon]

There is a thing that a lot of people who said folding or using electricity is a environemental hazard and contribute to the greenhouse gases and that is how electricity is produced. Where I live, 95% of all the power generated by Hydro-Quebec is coming from hydroelectricity and the rest is from windmills and a single nuclear reactor. This kind of production is environmental-friendly so the argument of environment hazard is useless. The only reason they wanted us to save power is because it cost a lot of money to build new dams but if I pay for power, I decided what I want to do.

Go poke those who love car racing since they are producing a lot more noxious gases in the air

[Ericson_Mar]

There is a thing that a lot of people who said folding or using electricity is a environemental hazard and contribute to the greenhouse gases and that is how electricity is produced. Where I live, 95% of all the power generated by Hydro-Quebec is coming from hydroelectricity and the rest is from windmills and a single nuclear reactor. This kind of production is environmental-friendly so the argument of environment hazard is useless. The only reason they wanted us to save power is because it cost a lot of money to build new dams but if I pay for power, I decided what I want to do.

Go poke those who love car racing since they are producing a lot more noxious gases in the air

Ha! That is the funniest thing I've heard. I would ask them what they would choose if it was to be between saving a stupid peguin's home and their mother's life one day.

Same crap with stem cells and genetics. People think it's wrong to "play god" or whatever until they or someone they love needs a heart or something. Then you'll see how "green" and "virtuous" they really are!

And by the way, building a dam disrupts the ecology of the habitat and kills fishes.