Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

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Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby Theodore » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:34 am

I had some low points on my PC lately.
Nacl showing 2k instead of 6, 11, or 13k points I'm getting normally on my PCs.
Affected projects are 142??, and 9020.

At first I thought I fried my CPU, but now it's happening on my other PCs as well.
Not all wus are slow. Some work normal. Some show very low PPD.
Second, I thought perhaps Windows is running updates, but no, the problem persists a few hours and a day later.

Also, upon startup, nacl mentioned I needed to enable flags, but the flag option wasn't present on my Google chrome anymore.
I just refreshed the window 3 or 4 times, and it started working again, without flag.
These CPUs have been folding for nearly half a year, sometimes days on end. The cases don't get hotter than perhaps 40c, so I don't think the hardware is broken, though I don't discount the possibility.
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby bruce » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:35 pm

There are several possiblities

1) Yes, the points have been reduced, but I'm not sure that is that significant.
2) google has reported that they are indending to drop support for pNACL. I don't know if anything changed.
3) Nacl does not earn bonus points. It never has. You'd be better off installing FAHClient.
4) Somebody tested nacl will a system with lots of CPU threads and determined that there are some problems with some projects if a large number of threads are expected. If you're running on a single CPU with- say 12 threads -- I doubt there has been any change. If you're trying to use it with-- say 64 threads, then nacl is NOT for you.
5) It might be something else.

Regarding #4, I don't know the actual numbers, but the projects assigned by nacl are small and should be something a person is expected to complete while they're using a shared walk-up computer in a hotel or a library. Bigger projects, earning more points, are assigned to FAHClient, and you should be using it.
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby MeeLee » Wed May 01, 2019 12:52 am

I also noticed a drop in points across the board on my pcs.
It's definitely dropped a lot of points, and the WUs are much larger.
So, less WUs per day, and MUCH less points!
Here are some points for reference:

Unit 1, folding occasionally:
Code: Select all
Day      Points   WUs
04.30.19   252   8
04.29.19   147   4
04.28.19   567   15
04.27.19   777   19
04.26.19   1,344   35
04.25.19   42   1
04.24.19   567   14
04.23.19   1,449   36
04.22.19   777   21
04.21.19   1,134   28


Unit 2 folding continuously:
Code: Select all
Day      Points   WUs
04.30.19   672   19
04.29.19   420   11
04.28.19   3,192   85
04.27.19   4,662   119
04.26.19   4,746   123
04.25.19   84   2
04.24.19   2,310   60
04.23.19   4,830   124
04.22.19   4,809   122
04.21.19   4,725   123
04.20.19   4,767   122
04.19.19   4,641   120


Aside from Thursday the 25th, when my systems are down, there's been a significant decrease in the past 2 days!
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby bruce » Wed May 01, 2019 5:02 am

@MeeLee You really need to install the software from https://foldingathome.org/start-folding/ instead of using Chrome/Nacl.
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby MeeLee » Fri May 03, 2019 11:39 am

I know, and I have on those computers I can.
If NaCl will be discontinued, only 1% of my total points will be affected.
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby MeeLee » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:21 pm

Just bringing this thing up again.
I got an Intel 6core running at 3.21Ghz, and NaCl only gives 42 points of 1hour WUs; that's 1k PPD.
Something's definitely wrong with the scoring?

Do I have to enter the passkey every time, or does NaCl know from the user name, if a passkey is connected?
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby Joe_H » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:26 pm

A passkey doesn't actually matter for NaCl points, there is no QRB associated with WU's from those projects. You get 42 or 21 points based on current projects whether it takes 10 minutes or an hour to complete one of the NaCl WU's. The only thing the passkey gets is connecting those points to one username and passkey combination in the database.

In my case that does matter as there are a few others who folded using variations on my username. One was still folding recently on an occasional basis.
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby MeeLee » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:29 pm

I used to run NaCl on a quadcore 2Ghz PC, and got between 10 and 30k PPD.
I know that was too good to be true; and the WUs also took about 10-20 minutes.
These WUs take 30 minutes to 1 hour, on a CPU that's more powerful. (6 cores vs 4, and 3+Ghz vs 2Ghz).
I understand that the scoring was a bit off. But I had expected to at least get 10k PPD for projects running NaCl.
Now I'm starting to wonder if 1k PPD is even worth folding for, as a whole day folding on NaCl is scored about the same as 1.5 minutes of a WU ran on a single GPU; or a whole day on my server equals 16.5 years folding with a 6 core 3Ghz CPU on this Nacl scoring system.
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby MeeLee » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:20 pm

Nevermind. Went up to 7k PPD in 3 hours, when using the passkey.
It seems now one needs a passkey (unlike before).
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby toTOW » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:08 pm

No NaCL project are using the QRB ... the increased PPD might just be a display bug in PPD computation.
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby bruce » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:36 am

Please report the PRCG numbers for any Nacl project that you believe got more than 42 or 21 points per WU. If you believe the passkey DID enable you to earn bonus points, we want to know about it.

Looking at your total points doesn't really indicate what's happening to individual WUs. If you're also running CPU-based projects, they SHOULD be earning bonus points, and they'll be competing for the same CPU resources that nacl might be using, so the total can vary.

Nacl Proj -- points per WU
9019 - - 42
9020 - - 42
9021 - - 42
9022 - - 42
14211 -- 21
14215 -- 42
14216 -- 42
14217 -- 42

Points per day (PPD) will obviously depend on how long your system takes to process each WU which will depend both on the complexity of the WU (project 14211 being faster) as well as how much time your CPU-threads are busy doing other things.
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby MeeLee » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:40 am

@Bruce,
21 to 42 points is ok for a WU that takes 30 minutes or more (sometimes 90 minutes) to complete on a Core i5, 6 cores, 3,1Ghz?

project 9019 shows 6k PPD on my system with passkey; and takes about 30 minutes to complete.
If the scoring is 42 points per WU, then it would not even get close to 6k PPD (but 42 * 24 * 2 = ~2k PPD).
Last edited by MeeLee on Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby bruce » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:59 am

What you are not telling me is what else is using the 6 cores. If nothing else is running on your machine, I do not believe that it takes 60 to 90 minutes to complete a nacl WU. What does Windows Task Manager tell us?
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby MeeLee » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:07 am

Nothing else is using the PC.
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Re: Any problems with nacl lately? Low points

Postby bruce » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:58 am

Show me what Task Manager is reporting.
How many chrome windows are open.
Is FAHClient running? If so show its log.

I'm confused.I asked how many windows are open ... and I really meant to also ask how many tabs are open in Chrome.
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