Is there a shortage of A2 units? [Yes, at times]

[dschief]

have 7 Linux SMP clients online, and lately have been getting nothing but A1. units, I've been letting them run out, for the good of the cause but it kills PPD averages. normally I see a relatively equal mix.

Just curious.

[bollix47]

I too am interested in an answer to this.

Currently all 6 of my SMP clients are running a1 core WUs for a drop in PPD of ~10,000!

The points are not my major concern but are an indication that these computers are not being used to the best of their ability for science.

I have tried using -advmethods on and off and it doesn't seem to make any difference. The occasional a2 core WU does sneak in but most of the time they only get a1 core units. The P5102 is the worse in terms of causing a PPD drop.

Thanks for any info as to why this is happening.

[7im]

You can count on the mix of work units changing all the time. You guys know that...

[micro]

That's not much of an answer and not helpful at all.

I suppose we should be sorry for asking such a "bad" question with the investments we have made to utilize these machines to their max capabilities. After all, I only spent over $500. apiece upgrading perfectly fine computers to help out the cause and run the more complex A_2's and all we want to know is WHY, when we configure Notfred's ISO and ask for BIG work units, does the work assignment server say that our computer requires an A_1 core?

Heck, I could just put back the 3 year old processor and slower RAM and do those things. No need for the top of the line Core 2 Duos with 4 GB's of RAM and a 1333 FSB.

The guys and I apologize for troubling this forum with such trivial questions after footing the bill for the equipment we are lending the Pande Group.

Thanks for all the help.

[^w^ing]

it seems to be in 7im's nature to almost always answer to something else than what people ask, but what you wrote was uncalled for.

from the serverstats it looks like both 171.64.65.64 (a1 WUs server) and 171.64.65.56 ('main' a2 WUs server) are almost equally low on available work units. There are another two servers that i know of which hand out a2 WUs, but for one of them you need at least 4+ cores, and the other one... well, dont know much about that one because it is listed as if it only serves "classic" clients, and the assignment server doesnt direct me at it much often, and since it isnt listed as a SMP server, I dont see a way how to tell how many of the available WUs are classic and how many are SMP WUs.

[dschief]

"There are another two servers that i know of which hand out a2 WUs, but for one of them you need at least 4+ cores, "
I have 2 Q6600 & a Q9550 and I launch the client with -SMP 4 and I still get only A1 cores

[7im]

Is there a shortage of a2s? It doesn't matter unless your only concern is your PPD. There is plenty of other work to be done, and newer faster hardware works just as well on an a1 core as an a2 core. a2 cores are NOT more complex, they are simply processed by a newer fahcore that folds faster. The data inside a1 WUs and a2 WUs are almost identical.

As the original poster noted, the mix of work units had changed. As such, my answer was accurate. A changing mix of work is the normal state of F@h, of which people sometimes need to be reminded. All of the work units need to be processed, even the work units that don't score as well. If all of the a2 work units are processed, you will get other work to do.

You should consider the higher PPD of the a2 work units a gift, and not complain so much when the free lunch is over, IMO. It's very possible the PPD of the a2 work units will change when the a2 is finally released on both Linux and Windows.

Here are some of the possible reasons for not getting a2 work units...

1. The current a2 projects are ending, and new a2 projects have not yet been started and uploaded to the servers. Plenty of a1s to keep you busy.
2. It's Friday, and the researcher who runs the a2 projects is taking a 3 day weekend. S/he will upload more a2 work units on Monday. Plenty of a1s to keep you busy.
3. Pande Group hasn't noticed the a2s are running low yet, but will upload more soon. Plenty of a1s to keep you busy.
4. The a2 projects are being phased out, and will be replaced by some other new core. Plenty of a1s to keep you busy.
5. You screwed up your configuration, and the Assignment Servers will now only give you a1s. Plenty of a1s to keep you busy until you fix your config.
6. Pande Group screwed up the Assignment Server configuration. Plenty of a1s to keep you busy until they fix their config.
7. Too busy actually trying to cure something than to upload more a2s. Check the end of this post. http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=87202#p87202 Plenty of a1s to keep you busy.

Shall I go on...? As you can see, it doesn't really matter WHY there is a shortage a2s. It may not even be a shortage, but may have been planned by PG to get more a1 work units folded. I'm just reminding everyone that Pande Group has the last word on work assignments. So there is little reason to get upset when you don't get an a2 work unit.

However, some contributors are more needy than others, so I suppose it wouldn't hurt if PG was a little more communicative about their plans in regards to what types of new work units would be coming next (although the comments in the post linked above puts things in to perspective rather well).

[kelliegang]

Sometimes gets hard to remember that all work units are equally as important as each other for complete understanding of protein folding when each work unit has a different "value"...

I suppose the benefits that the "competition" gathers outweighs the negatives

[^w^ing]

"There are another two servers that i know of which hand out a2 WUs, but for one of them you need at least 4+ cores, "
I have 2 Q6600 & a Q9550 and I launch the client with -SMP 4 and I still get only A1 cores

well, that the server needs 4+ cores to get assigned to, doesnt mean that all quad cores will automatically be assigned only to this server. I said that because there could hypotheticaly be alot of A2 WUs that can be assigned to quad cores, but not to dual cores. But you are still dependant on how the assignemnt server is shifting at the moment your asking for an assignment.

...

hehe, again. For the question at hand, a much simplier answer would be "Yes, there seems to be an A2 WU shortage", where the word "seems" represents all the points that you wrote

[micro]

7im

Thanks for the detailed explanation the second time.

The original question posed at the beginning of the thread was not posed in anger at all, but was a simple straightforward question that I myself on another board had wondered about as I too had noticed a big change in the mixture of work assignments.

No, screwing up my Notfreds ISO didn;t happen so there really wasn;t any point in going on.

Why you could not just give a simple explanation that might have been meaningfull I guess we will never know, but it is answers like the one you gave that come up way short of the mark of civility.

As a board moderator myself, I could not believe what I had just read.

That is fine if PG has a change foing on. Wish they would let us know about it when they do instead of being left in the dark to wonder. You know, communication is a wonderful thing.

The reason folks have added quad cores and core 2 duos is to run the higher end work units that the group had changed to because there apparently were plenty of "older" processors, if you call Pentium 4's older, to handle the single core work assignments.
That is why the question that was initially asked, and please be aware that if you see ONE question like that here, there are 100 hundred times this many being asked other places about identically the same thing.

Folding is not our life. I happen to run a corporation. A private one and am owner and chief exec. I haven't time to waste trying to stay on top of every breaking new development or change. That is why a fellow team member pointed me here to this exact question which we ALL had been asking about.
Your answer came across in a not so nice manner, whether you meant it that way or not. It was not helpful, but rater brusque, and I don;t care what the person from Czeck Republic thinks. Everyone on our folding team that read your reply thought it was rude, so it wasn't just me.

I have retired one of my core 2 duos Friday already from folding that runs 24/7 and am strongly considering retiring the others as well after this "helpful"and snotty attitude on display.

If you don't care to be courteous and kind to people who are trying to help a cause when they have a simple question, and yes, it does cost us money to do this "donating", (last I checked the electric was not free and in fact, rates are going up again) then perhaps I should reconsider where my charitable contributions are spent.

Sorry 7im, that's how I see it and how you came across and for the Czech person, learn how to read.

micro...

[micro]

kellie and wing

Let me lay it out for you.

Processor is about $200. roughly and a good video card another $150.. plus cost of dual channel memory, paired 2 GB sticks of GOOD memory, not junk memory modules.

Does this help with the math?

Since I build my own machines I can control costs somewhat but I don;t scrimp when it comes to quality. I did not even mention the power supply but see if you can figure that out on your own.

Yes you did take a jab at micro.

Now, as to the reason for upgrading computers at my offices.
1. I was running 3.6 Ghz Pentium 4's before.
2. I wanted to assit the Pande Group a little more so I decided to go with top of the line Core 2 Duo when the E8400 became available, which meant motherboard change as well. Not included in calculation either.

WHY??????? So the A_2s could be run as that was the next big series they had coming out and only stronger dual cores could do them.
The points? Glad for them as they reflect the effort required and they are NOT A GIFT as someone said. They come at a cost.

We all lhave our personal reasons for folding. We all probably have a story we could tell about a friend or family member who has a disease and is slowly dieing. Well, am no different. I spent every night last week at the bedside of one such person. There are two others in the family who have different diseases that will ultimately take their lives. My uncle is in ICU in Philadelphia. That about answer it?
This is a way for me to help someone else down the road so they don;t have to suffer the same fate.

Points? For real?????? That really is limited thinking.

micro...

[^w^ing]

...and for the Czech person, learn how to read.

Excuse me?


I wonder what I did to deserve this? I only tried to answer the original question (I am starting to be sorry for that).
I found 7im's first post rather misplaced, as you did, but I have no doubt about that he always wants to help people on this forum.
And why the hell are you pointing your latter post at me? It isnt related to anything of what I wrote, so why do you act as if I insulted your mother?

[MtM]

To much to quote so I'm not going to but talk broadly.

I had my run ins with 7im, same reasons you guys bring up now. Can come accros abit short. Problem is, you ask questions which are asked not once but hundreds of times before, and it gets tiresome to explain everything as 7im did in his second post something on which you agreed.

I hope you can understand that I would probably reacted the same way as 7im did, maybe linking you to previous discussion about the same subject to excuse my own short answer.

If you feel like he acted inappropiate, it is mentioned in the FAQ of this forum to use the search function before asking anything, so ask yourself who acted inappropiate at first? Not saying you shouldn't ask, you're free to, but to react in the manner as you did is doing short of 7im's intentions. Maybe you should have thought, what he said indicates this has been asked before, so maybe we ourselfs should look for those threads?

And threatning to quit f@h, it's something I thought and spoke about as well, just to indicate that personal feelings and attachement to why we want to participate and also how personal this can be, but I didn't go through with it. Instead, I took breaks, came to peace with myself because I realised the greater picture.

Let me ask you, even if you hated someone's guts, and that person would post on this forum reguraly, would you feel good about leaving the project due to an individual? Or would you feel better when you as a last resort just use the forums ignore function? Though ignoring 7im might be a problem, as others can't see who you got ignored and when he answerd something allot of people will assume a thread to be resolved

Personal note, don't quit, the cause is much more important then any individual diffrences you might experience on the forums.

[7im]

Pande Group values very highly each and everyone's dedication and their contributions to the project.

But getting upset about a fluctuation in points is like getting upset about the weather. Neither is productive.

I would prefer everyone folds, but each has to make their own choices in life. YPMV.

[MtM]

Pande Group values very highly each and everyone's dedication and their contributions to the project.

But getting upset about a fluctuation in points is like getting upset about the weather. Neither is productive.

7im your own comparison put's you in bad daylight as complaints about the weather are as common as apple pie

I would prefer everyone folds, but each has to make their own choices in life. YPMV.

YPMV indeed, but try to sound less harsh hehe ok

I don't want anyone to get scared by you, on the other hand, the reactions in this thread where emotional and therefore not really thought through, so it should only be more important to keep a low profile and don't use a to end your post

Instead, offer to kiss and make up Maybe that is a better method of showing how appriciated people are